TSSAA vs. BA - Round 587

[big red big blue]

Many people will say that that game was for the 5A title. Its no accident that that night the two best coaches, IMO, were on the field. As big red blue stated, sometimes everyting just comes together.

 

 

no doubt...2 of the greatest sporting events I ever witnessed. I still wish Ricky had just gone for 2 in 96 and played to win/lose right there w/o OT. I flew in from college to watch that game...just amazing.

[ROBERTO]

Is Blount County (Maryville, Alcoa) an "open zone"? How does that work? Could "undue influence" be used there? What other county public school systems are like that?

Edited July 10, 2006 by ROBERTO

[TheBigRedDog]

what I think happens is natural "self-selection" at winning schools like BA and Maryville. Once young kids demonstrate success early on, then they naturally gravitate to the places where the parents perceive they have the best opportunity to receive high level coaching and achieve great success. Part of that means that these schools are receiving kids from the outset with a high level of parental involvement and support. The kids playing sports and thriving at young ages naturally come from families that have already made sacrifices of time and money to support their kids. They are the ones practicing with their kids after work, sending them to camps, buying them the best equipment, driving them all around for games, etc. So the kids who show up for school not only have some demonstrated aptitude but also a sound family support structure. The coaches can skip over the basic minimums of showing up on time for practice, getting to off-season work-outs, etc., and move on to bigger challenges. On top of that, within the school there is a tremendous positive peer pressure. The more they win, the more the cycle perpetuates itself. I think, imo, it reached a "tipping point" for BA in the early 80's when Williamson county was still an up and coming area and metro Nashville schools were not doing well.

 

personally, I think it has nothing to do with public or private and everything to do with the culture of winning. It's why I think the real coaching geniuses are guys like Adeylott and Maurice Fitzgerald, who took dead programs (Hillsboro and Pearl-Cohn) and built them into winners from the ground up.

 

 

Well put.

[tnsddeveloper]

Is Blount County (Maryville, Alcoa) an "open zone"? How does that work? Could "undue influence" be used there? What other public county school systems are like that?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Blount Co. students can pay a "tuition" and choose to attend Alcoa or Maryville regardless of what zone they are zoned for ... of which there are 4 high schools in the county ... Maryville, Alcoa, Heritage, and William Blount. Heritage and William Blount are both 5A schools I believe.

 

So yes, Alcoa and Maryville are open zones ... while the others are not. Notice the LONG time winning programs at Alcoa and Maryville ... especially when compared to the mediocrity of Heritage and William Blount. You can bet your bottom dollar that "undue influence" is going on there.

 

All magnet schools are open zoned. Notice their dominance in sports such as basketball - MLK and Liberty Tech.

 

Many "metro" area high schools are open zoned including football powerhouse Hillsboro.

 

And other schools have (or used to Riverdale ) "friendly" county admins that granted zone change requests for certain schools.

[TheBigRedDog]

yeah, we've all heard the "poor outmanned BA" song before as well. i am afraid that only makes the charts at one campus.

coaching is important, but no one is so smart they can win without horses.

and coaching goes beyond just the head coach, lets give the staff their due.

when you played those "underachieving" mcgavock teams, how did the staffs stack up? (numbers and qualifications)

you could have swapped the head coaches and neither game would have had a different outcome.

now, had you swapped the staffs, and the homes the players went to after school, the games would have been very different.

carlton flatt is obviously a very good football coach, but he hasnt performed miracles.

more than one coach has seen their records soar after moving from public to private. are they getting injections of smart serum after they are hired?

 

 

No doubt that BA had a few horses, and so did we. You are right about the coaching staffs, as well. Coaches like Bowers and Flatt have been able to assemble superb staffs. That McGavock squad had some horses too, most notably their QB, Edmonson, I beleive. Big Red Blue makes an excellent point about the culture of winning that exists at many private schools. Certainly, its not all about the head coaches, but I beleive it starts there.

[TheBigRedDog]

no doubt...2 of the greatest sporting events I ever witnessed. I still wish Ricky had just gone for 2 in 96 and played to win/lose right there w/o OT. I flew in from college to watch that game...just amazing.

 

 

Yeah, its an honor to have been a part of it. I've had some guys on that BA team tell me if we had gone for 2, we would have made it. They said that after we scored the TD, they were really shaken up and their defense was tired and rattled. I could see it in their eyes for the first time that they thought they could lose, but alas, they didn't. We had plenty of chances to win the game and didn't get it done.

[EastTN74]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Blount Co. students can pay a "tuition" and choose to attend Alcoa or Maryville regardless of what zone they are zoned for ... of which there are 4 high schools in the county ... Maryville, Alcoa, Heritage, and William Blount. Heritage and William Blount are both 5A schools I believe.

 

So yes, Alcoa and Maryville are open zones ... while the others are not. Notice the LONG time winning programs at Alcoa and Maryville ... especially when compared to the mediocrity of Heritage and William Blount. You can bet your bottom dollar that "undue influence" is going on there.

 

 

 

 

Alcoa and Maryville are both city schools in two different systems. William Blount and Heritage are county schools. (Three different systems in one county.) Students outside the zones are able to go to Alcoa and Maryville and pay tuition.

 

Several years ago there was a radio call in show with a local guy and Maryville's head coach. A caller made the comment that he could see no difference in what the DII teams did as far as recruits and Maryville. Interesting.

Edited July 10, 2006 by EastTN74

[tnsddeveloper]

Alcoa and Maryville are both city schools in two different systems. William Blount and Heritage are county schools. (Three different systems in one county.) Students outside the zones are able to go to Alcoa and Maryville and pay tuition.

 

Several years ago there was a radio call in show with a local guy and Maryville's head coach. A caller made the comment that he could see no difference in what the DII teams did as far as recruits and Maryville. Interesting.

 

Interesting. So the 2 different city school systems (Alcoa City Schools and Maryville City Schools) are recruiting students from the 2 county schools.

Edited July 10, 2006 by tnsddeveloper

[big red big blue]

Is Blount County (Maryville, Alcoa) an "open zone"? How does that work? Could "undue influence" be used there? What other county public school systems are like that?

 

maybe, but I can't see any reason why applying "undue influence" would be necessary. Both programs have a history of winning--especially Maryville. I'm sure that the parents of a promising young athlete will just do whatever is necessary legally within the rules to get their kids to Maryville. Probably inside and outside of their natural zones. It makes it tougher for the others but it is a natural consequence of success. The success of the program is doing all the recruiting, imo.

[tnsddeveloper]

maybe, but I can't see any reason why applying "undue influence" would be necessary. Both programs have a history of winning--especially Maryville. I'm sure that the parents of a promising young athlete will just do whatever is necessary legally within the rules to get their kids to Maryville. Probably inside and outside of their natural zones. It makes it tougher for the others but it is a natural consequence of success. The success of the program is doing all the recruiting, imo.

They very well may rely on the success of their program now - but I doubt it. How do you build a successful program like that? It had to start somewhere. Or at least the folks that point at BA and others would like you to think.

 

No, it is not illegal within the rules of the each school zone. However, it should be for the matters of sports eligibility and the TSSAA. They have an open invitation to recruit by being by just being a "public" school. Why aren't other publics jumping up and down about this?

Edited July 10, 2006 by tnsddeveloper

[EastTN74]

maybe, but I can't see any reason why applying "undue influence" would be necessary. Both programs have a history of winning--especially Maryville. I'm sure that the parents of a promising young athlete will just do whatever is necessary legally within the rules to get their kids to Maryville. Probably inside and outside of their natural zones. It makes it tougher for the others but it is a natural consequence of success. The success of the program is doing all the recruiting, imo.

 

 

Exactly....that is why Heritage and William Blount have never been successful in football.

[Indian]

I was reading in the football forum BA has a new quarterback, a student from Texas who will play just one season in TN and is already getting major college attention. I'm wondering if the student was enrolled before any kind of discussion took place on if BA would be a good fit, athletics-wise, as the rule states, or if that rule is even considered by BA anymore after they won this latest ruling?