Division II Football restructuring?

[tnsddeveloper]

No matter how you spell it. If someone is giving someone who does not have an opprotunity. It is a scholorship. Like I said it is worded differently. You want an even playing field come up to the big leagues. Move to DII. Instead you and Lipscomb run scared in DI.

So ... I know for a fact this same thing is going on at Maryville and Alcoa ... is it wrong there too? They seem pretty dominant to me. It seems pretty hard to police people that aren't admins or coaches and what they want to do with their PERSONAL funds.

 

As for running scared ... I hardly think that living with a multiplier where every kid we have equals 1.8 of yours is running. Not only living with it ... owning it.

 

You sound like a poor little lad that apparently lost to one of those teams. Maybe you can get all other teams public and private thrown out of your classification and then you win the gold ball by default.

Edited September 15, 2006 by tnsddeveloper

[MHubbuch]

So ... I know for a fact this same thing is going on at Maryville and Alcoa ... is it wrong there too? They seem pretty dominant to me. It seems pretty hard to police people that aren't admins or coaches and what they want to do with their PERSONAL funds.

 

As for running scared ... I hardly think that living with a multiplier where every kid we have equals 1.8 of yours is running. Not only living with it ... owning it.

 

You sound like a poor little lad that apparently lost to one of those teams. Maybe you can get all other teams public and private thrown out of your classification and then you win the gold ball by default.

 

 

There is a Huge difference between doing it in a public school and a private school.

For a fact I know that Ray Maddox was on the board of directors of the Private school at the time it happened. That is why Schools like Riverdale, Oak Ridge, Austin-East, Ridgeway, Melrose, Brentwood High, amung a few, That complained highly for the split. Now it is time for the TSSAA to step up to the plate and force all Private Schools to move to DII. Then this debate would not be happening.

 

It is very easy for a Private school to police itself. It just takes people makeing the effort to follow through.

[tnsddeveloper]

There is a Huge difference between doing it in a public school and a private school.

Why is it different? Because you say so?

 

There is no difference. If you live outside the Alcoa and Maryville zones, you must pay tuition costs exactly like a private school. Why is it different if a booster there pays for tuition for someone to attend there ... but not at another school?

 

And I'm not conceding that you even know what you are talking about anyway in the Goodpasture case ... but I can confirm it ... Drew and his wife are VERY close friends of me and my wife. We will actually be visiting them this weekend to let the kids play and to grill some hamburglars (yes, misspelled as an inside joke).

Edited September 15, 2006 by tnsddeveloper

[MHubbuch]

Why is it different? Because you say so?

 

There is no difference. If you live outside the Alcoa and Maryville zones, you must pay tuition costs exactly like a private school. Why is it different if a booster there pays for tuition for someone to attend there ... but not at another school?

 

And I'm not conceding that you even know what you are talking about anyway in the Goodpasture case ... but I can confirm it ... Drew and his wife are VERY close friends of me and my wife. We will actually be visiting them this weekend to let the kids play and to grill some hamburglars (yes, misspelled as an inside joke).

 

 

Because someone is not coming out of pocket to pay for someone to go to a school. How much does it cost to attend those schools? ZERO.

 

When you can come out of pocket and pay for it that is the difference.

[tnsddeveloper]

Because someone is not coming out of pocket to pay for someone to go to a school. How much does it cost to attend those schools? ZERO.

 

When you can come out of pocket and pay for it that is the difference.

WRONG! It does cost something to attend Alcoa and Maryville if you live out of the "city" zone. Matter of a fact, both schools have kids that live in Knox county and attend schools in the Alcoa and Maryville city schools ... both inside of Blount county.

 

Someone is footing that bill too.

[MHubbuch]

WRONG! It does cost something to attend Alcoa and Maryville if you live out of the "city" zone. Matter of a fact, both schools have kids that live in Knox county and attend schools in the Alcoa and Maryville city schools ... both inside of Blount county.

 

Someone is footing that bill too.

 

I did not know that it cost anything to attend a public school. You got me on that one. I am in Middle TN not East TN.

[The Bull]

So ... I know for a fact this same thing is going on at Maryville and Alcoa ... is it wrong there too? They seem pretty dominant to me. It seems pretty hard to police people that aren't admins or coaches and what they want to do with their PERSONAL funds.

 

As for running scared ... I hardly think that living with a multiplier where every kid we have equals 1.8 of yours is running. Not only living with it ... owning it.

 

You sound like a poor little lad that apparently lost to one of those teams. Maybe you can get all other teams public and private thrown out of your classification and then you win the gold ball by default.

Providing money for any student to attend a private or public school is not (currently) a fair option in the state of TN. If the government passed legislation for vouchers or the like, then this would be a viable option. Even with such legislation, someone will always fork out the additional capital to overcome others.

 

As the current rules are in TSSAA, private schools and public schools, such as Alcoa & Maryville, that can expand their zones beyond a few miles will always have an advantage when compared to the small rural schools with limited student populations when competing in athletics. These $$ schools have an advantage in this regard.

 

If this is not the case, then why have 5 classes/3 classes in DI? Could there be another Hickory (Hoosiers) in TN that could win it all? I'm afraid that the scales are one-sided when comparing apples to oranges. 1.8 does not balance the disadvantages that the little guys have.

Edited September 19, 2006 by The Bull

[Baldcoach]

Providing money for any student to attend a private or public school is not (currently) a fair option in the state of TN. If the government passed legislation for vouchers or the like, then this would be a viable option. Even with such legislation, someone will always fork out the additional capital to overcome others.

 

As the current rules are in TSSAA, private schools and puble schools, such as Alcoa & Maryville, that can expand their zones beyond a few miles will always have an advantage when compared to the small rural schools with limited student populations when competing in athletics. These $$ schools have an advantage in this regard.

 

If this is not the case, then why have 5 classes/3 classes in DI? Could there be another Hickory (Hoosiers) in TN that could win it all? I'm afraid that the scales are one-sided when comparing apples to oranges. 1.8 does not balance the disadvantages that the little guys have.

 

Your assumption here is that the small privates are paying athletes to attend. They are not. Thus your argument is invalid. The small privates ARE the little guys. They can't offer financial aid but they still charge 5-8k per year to attend...thus their pool of available students is MUCH smaller than the average public. That is why small privates don't usually do well outside metro areas...there isn't a large enough pool of potential students to fill out the role.

[Antwan]

So ... I know for a fact this same thing is going on at Maryville and Alcoa ... is it wrong there too? They seem pretty dominant to me. It seems pretty hard to police people that aren't admins or coaches and what they want to do with their PERSONAL funds.

 

As for running scared ... I hardly think that living with a multiplier where every kid we have equals 1.8 of yours is running. Not only living with it ... owning it.

 

You sound like a poor little lad that apparently lost to one of those teams. Maybe you can get all other teams public and private thrown out of your classification and then you win the gold ball by default.

 

Kinda reminds me of your team this year.

Edited September 19, 2006 by Antwan

[The Bull]

Your assumption here is that the small privates are paying athletes to attend. They are not. Thus your argument is invalid. The small privates ARE the little guys. They can't offer financial aid but they still charge 5-8k per year to attend...thus their pool of available students is MUCH smaller than the average public. That is why small privates don't usually do well outside metro areas...there isn't a large enough pool of potential students to fill out the role.

Your argument is that The Bull believes that small privates are paying athletes to attend.

 

The Bull's rebutle:

Providing money for any student to attend a private or public school is not (currently) a fair option in the state of TN. If the government passed legislation for vouchers or the like, then this would be a viable option. Even with such legislation, someone will always fork out the additional capital to overcome others.

No assumption or evidence provided here that The Bull sees in any program that pays their students to attend for athletic purposes. This is more of a statement that embarks on what future options the government may seek to employ. The Bull further believes that if this avenue is opened, then supporters of big name programs will seek to ovecome any advantage that small privates (or others) might aquire by marketing for these potential vouchers. Someone will always attempt to out do someone else.

 

As the current rules are in TSSAA, private schools and public schools, such as Alcoa & Maryville, that can expand their zones beyond a few miles will always have an advantage when compared to the small rural schools with limited student populations when competing in athletics. These $$ schools have an advantage in this regard.

 

Maybe rural private schools find it difficult to expand upon their student population, but as a business they did choose to place their school in a given location.

 

As far as the small privates located near metro areas, there is an advantage to a school that can expand their zones beyond a few miles when compard to the small rural schools with limited populations when competing in athletics. Small rural schools have let's say 150 boys in their school. Whereas small private schools can look further when seeking to enroll boys in their school. The radius surrounding their school may encompass several counties as opposed to the rural public school only drawing from one community.

 

If this is not the case, then why have 5 classes/3 classes in DI? Could there be another Hickory (Hoosiers) in TN that could win it all? I'm afraid that the scales are one-sided when comparing apples to oranges. 1.8 does not balance the disadvantages that the little guys have.

 

Does The Bull need to say more?

Edited September 19, 2006 by The Bull

[Baldcoach]

Your argument is that The Bull believes that small privates are paying athletes to attend.

 

The Bull's rebutle:

 

No assumption or evidence provided here that The Bull sees in any program that pays their students to attend for athletic purposes. This is more of a statement that embarks on what future options the government may seek to employ. The Bull further believes that if this avenue is opened, then supporters of big name programs will seek to ovecome any advantage that small privates (or others) might aquire by marketing for these potential vouchers. Someone will always attempt to out do someone else.

 

 

 

Maybe rural private schools find it difficult to expand upon their student population, but as a business they did choose to place their school in a given location.

 

As far as the small privates located near metro areas, there is an advantage to a school that can expand their zones beyond a few miles when compard to the small rural schools with limited populations when competing in athletics. Small rural schools have let's say 150 boys in their school. Whereas small private schools can look further when seeking to enroll boys in their school. The radius surrounding their school may encompass several counties as opposed to the rural public school only drawing from one community.

Does The Bull need to say more?

 

 

I would like to look at this quote:

 

"As far as the small privates located near metro areas, there is an advantage to a school that can expand their zones beyond a few miles when compard to the small rural schools with limited populations when competing in athletics. Small rural schools have let's say 150 boys in their school. Whereas small private schools can look further when seeking to enroll boys in their school. The radius surrounding their school may encompass several counties as opposed to the rural public school only drawing from one community.

Does The Bull need to say more?"

 

Again, your point is only valid if (1) The small privates are intentionally recruiting athletes and (2) Expanding a zone means more available students. The first simply isn't true and the second might or might not be true based on tuition costs and the community's ability/will to pay that cost.

 

My original message simply refuted the assumption(s) behind your point. If the assumptions are false then so is the conclusion that follows. Thus, you will need to say more...how can you show that wider = better if the small privates don't go recruit better athletes? How will you show that wider = more available if the small privates have to charge tuition that roughly equals an additional house payment for each student?

[MHubbuch]

So ... I know for a fact this same thing is going on at Maryville and Alcoa ... is it wrong there too? They seem pretty dominant to me. It seems pretty hard to police people that aren't admins or coaches and what they want to do with their PERSONAL funds.

 

As for running scared ... I hardly think that living with a multiplier where every kid we have equals 1.8 of yours is running. Not only living with it ... owning it.

 

You sound like a poor little lad that apparently lost to one of those teams. Maybe you can get all other teams public and private thrown out of your classification and then you win the gold ball by default.

 

 

The TSSAA and the powers to be have made this a tough situation. If they are going to have a Division II then all schools that they are singleing out should play in it. Any schoool that needs a multiplier should be playing in DII.