Horencamp and Cutter

[clifford20]

No I agree with your assesment. No question that Div 1 volleyball is better. That wasn't my argument. We were talking about Div 2 volleyball and the limitations NAIA have--which are many in most programs. But I was referrign to the best in each division.

 

I too had the option of playing low Div 1 ball and chose not too. Losing at a school like UT Maritin or Morehead or Tenn Tech, was not as appealing as winning at a DIV 11 school....or naia for that matter. Just a personal preference. Losing stinks.

 

I would have jumped at the chance of playing at an SEC school...just didn't have the ability.

 

Your assesment on why kids would transfer from D-1 programs in baseball rarely has to do with playing time in my experience. Mostly trouble, grades, failed drug test or the "two transfer rule".

[PHargis]

No I agree with your assesment. No question that Div 1 volleyball is better. That wasn't my argument. We were talking about Div 2 volleyball and the limitations NAIA have--which are many in most programs. But I was referrign to the best in each division.

 

I too had the option of playing low Div 1 ball and chose not too. Losing at a school like UT Maritin or Morehead or Tenn Tech, was not as appealing as winning at a DIV 11 school....or naia for that matter. Just a personal preference. Losing stinks.

 

I would have jumped at the chance of playing at an SEC school...just didn't have the ability.

 

Your assesment on why kids would transfer from D-1 programs in baseball rarely has to do with playing time in my experience. Mostly trouble, grades, failed drug test or the "two transfer rule".

Since my name was mentioned Cliff, whether he knows it or not, this is an old debating technique which is commonly used. Number one, you slam the other person geting him off balance and then you change the response to meet your needs and points. Every response starts out the same way and i would hate to talk to CATU about something substantial because it would always get back to only what he knows as an absolute which most often has holes in it. i have found in dealing with people, you always have to be careful which people that use certain words and are absolutely sure about things. it shows their Personality and if they are wrong , they have gone down the path too far and maybe have no turning space to retrace and reconsider the path. That is not to say that CAT does not have some valid points about a lot of things but his path is clouded with so much absolutely true information that very likely a lot of it is flawed. There are only a few things in this world that are absolute without any exceptions and one makes decisons normally with downsides and upsides and hoping some way things meet in the middle. Was reading this and the facts given are facts and refuting the exceptions certainly gives no confidence that everything is that way.

[catuballer]

Since my name was mentioned Cliff, whether he knows it or not, this is an old debating technique which is commonly used. Number one, you slam the other person geting him off balance and then you change the response to meet your needs and points. Every response starts out the same way and i would hate to talk to CATU about something substantial because it would always get back to only what he knows as an absolute which most often has holes in it. i have found in dealing with people, you always have to be careful which people that use certain words and are absolutely sure about things. it shows their Personality and if they are wrong , they have gone down the path too far and maybe have no turning space to retrace and reconsider the path. That is not to say that CAT does not have some valid points about a lot of things but his path is clouded with so much absolutely true information that very likely a lot of it is flawed. There are only a few things in this world that are absolute without any exceptions and one makes decisons normally with downsides and upsides and hoping some way things meet in the middle. Was reading this and the facts given are facts and refuting the exceptions certainly gives no confidence that everything is that way.

I guessed right.

 

PHargis, what do you disagree with exactly. What did I say that has holes? What is cloudy? Be specific about what you disagree with my post and we can go back and forth on those issues. The reason I brought you into the argument is because you reply to about 95% of my posts in a negative way - just because you assume you probably don't like me as a person or just don't like the way I respond on here. You really can't have too many things on my most recent posts that you disagree with. You just have decided to not like me so you have something negative to say with all my posts. You are allowed to agree with me sometimes.

[VballDaddy78]

I guessed right.

 

PHargis, what do you disagree with exactly. What did I say that has holes? What is cloudy? Be specific about what you disagree with my post and we can go back and forth on those issues. The reason I brought you into the argument is because you reply to about 95% of my posts in a negative way - just because you assume you probably don't like me as a person or just don't like the way I respond on here. You really can't have too many things on my most recent posts that you disagree with. You just have decided to not like me so you have something negative to say with all my posts. You are allowed to agree with me sometimes.

Now wait a minute CATU, you're a Plus Member but you must not have read the addendum that was recently added. Since I just renewed, 2 nights ago, I remember it read something like...... "To be a Plus Member, in good standing, you cannot ever agree with anything Catuballer posts"

 

In all seriousness, I appreciate you mentioning a couple of things you agreed with, that I said

Edited September 1, 2006 by VballDaddy78

[oldsklvb]

Cliff,

 

Cliff, admit it. If you are a young high school athlete with big dreams, your dream is to play at the D-I level. I don't care what sport. If you are competitive and you want to play at the highest level - you will set a goal to play at the D-I level.

 

Think about this. If someone asks you where you played college ball, would you rather answer - I played at UT, MTSU, North Alabama, Cumberland or Trevecca?

 

Interesting which schools you choose to list. Isn't Lipscomb a D1 school? Are you playing at the highest level if you are playing there? Not intended to be derogatory to Lipscomb since I know and like the coach a great deal. So I guess you are saying that there are no D2 schools that can beat D1 schools since D1 is the "highest level"?

 

You might want to get out more and watch the game that you pretend to know so intimately. But then again, sounds like you have everything figured out already. The rest of us are lucky to have you as a source of indisputable information.

 

Or mabye you have a furball caught in your throat Cat.

[PHargis]

I guessed right.

 

PHargis, what do you disagree with exactly. What did I say that has holes? What is cloudy? Be specific about what you disagree with my post and we can go back and forth on those issues. The reason I brought you into the argument is because you reply to about 95% of my posts in a negative way - just because you assume you probably don't like me as a person or just don't like the way I respond on here. You really can't have too many things on my most recent posts that you disagree with. You just have decided to not like me so you have something negative to say with all my posts. You are allowed to agree with me sometimes.

Is it just me? Where is your ad?

Edited September 1, 2006 by PHargis

[catuballer]

Interesting which schools you choose to list. Isn't Lipscomb a D1 school? Are you playing at the highest level if you are playing there? Not intended to be derogatory to Lipscomb since I know and like the coach a great deal. So I guess you are saying that there are no D2 schools that can beat D1 schools since D1 is the "highest level"?

 

You might want to get out more and watch the game that you pretend to know so intimately. But then again, sounds like you have everything figured out already. The rest of us are lucky to have you as a source of indisputable information.

 

Or mabye you have a furball caught in your throat Cat.

I somehow missed this reply earlier.

 

Ouch, that hurt.

 

Yes, I do think Lipscomb is playing at a very high level. And I do think it is a slam to Brandon and his team for you to bring that up the way you did.

 

I guess I forgot to mention that within D-I there are different levels as well. Lipscomb is not a major D-I school, but they do play D-I, which is a higher level than D-II, NAIA, or D-III. You might want to go back and read my post for further indisputable information regarding the classifications and what advantages D-I schools have in the recruiting world over other divisions. Now, there are D-I schools that are not fully funded. This means that even though the NCAA allows them to offer up to 12 full scholarships, the school itself may opt to offer less due to financial restrictions and a focus on distributing money elsewhere.

 

I would say that Lipscomb could get beat by some D-II or NAIA scools on occasion, but I would put my money on Lipscomb against almost all D-II and NAIA schools 95% of the time- if not more.

 

Nice try on making your point, but in my humble opinion, you didn't quite nail that one.

[oldsklvb]

I somehow missed this reply earlier.

 

Ouch, that hurt.

 

Yes, I do think Lipscomb is playing at a very high level. And I do think it is a slam to Brandon and his team for you to bring that up the way you did.

 

I guess I forgot to mention that within D-I there are different levels as well. Lipscomb is not a major D-I school, but they do play D-I, which is a higher level than D-II, NAIA, or D-III. You might want to go back and read my post for further indisputable information regarding the classifications and what advantages D-I schools have in the recruiting world over other divisions. Now, there are D-I schools that are not fully funded. This means that even though the NCAA allows them to offer up to 12 full scholarships, the school itself may opt to offer less due to financial restrictions and a focus on distributing money elsewhere.

 

I would say that Lipscomb could get beat by some D-II or NAIA scools on occasion, but I would put my money on Lipscomb against almost all D-II and NAIA schools 95% of the time- if not more.

 

Nice try on making your point, but in my humble opinion, you didn't quite nail that one.

Nice try in attempting to change my point regarding Lipscomb...I asked you if you consider them at the "Highest" level, not a "very high level". You are the one who stated D1 is the "highest" level and this conveys that all other divisions would be below this level in play and athletes. Just not the case but you acknowledge this in your post so I'm not sure where you stand. Simply pointing out that your arguement is full of holes.

 

As for Brandon's feelings being hurt...don't think so. He understands what he is doing and how he is building his program one year at a time while trying to compete with the likes of the larger schools in his division.

 

Thanks for being humble

[catuballer]

Nice try in attempting to change my point regarding Lipscomb...I asked you if you consider them at the "Highest" level, not a "very high level". You are the one who stated D1 is the "highest" level and this conveys that all other divisions would be below this level in play and athletes. Just not the case but you acknowledge this in your post so I'm not sure where you stand. Simply pointing out that your arguement is full of holes.

 

As for Brandon's feelings being hurt...don't think so. He understands what he is doing and how he is building his program one year at a time while trying to compete with the likes of the larger schools in his division.

 

Thanks for being humble

I think you need to read all my posts regarding this issue. I am very clear on the subject. D-I is the highest level. I guess I will have to write a book on the subject so I can cover every little point so that people won't say that I am being inconsistent or missing some points. Yes, there are different levels of play within each division. Sorry, I didn't make that clear the first time.

 

The only reason people do not like hearing that D-I is the highest level is because their child, grandchild, relative, someone who has played for them or their high school, etc. did not go D-I and may very well have been a good player. The concern is that "my kid is just as good as your kid - even though your kid plays D-I and mine does not" Who cares? I would like to refer back to Vballdaddy78 who said his daughter had a chance to play D-I and turned it down for NAIA. That is a great example. Not all D-I players are better than all D-II or NAIA players.

 

However, almost all D-I teams are better than D-II and NAIA teams. Ask your close friend that coaches Lipscomb. I bet he would agree with me. He would feel very confident with a schedule that included only the top D-II and NAIA schools on it. He may not go undefeated, but he would fare quite well.

 

Based on many opinions of posters on this site, the NCAA and NAIA should just have one post season tournament and just forget about having different divisions. Afterall, there really isn't any difference. Hmmmmm........... What do you think?

 

I am sorry hit a nerve so near and dear to you. I was just stating an opinion.

[oldsklvb]

Sounds like you have come to your senses now in understanding the divisions. Just so I'm clear as to what you think, D1 is above D2, which is above NAIA...got it. Thanks for stating the obvious.

 

Just curious...how much volleyball do you get to watch at the collegiate level?

[patsfan123]

nice to see Bratman and I aren't the only ones that don't always play well together.

[catuballer]

Sounds like you have come to your senses now in understanding the divisions. Just so I'm clear as to what you think, D1 is above D2, which is above NAIA...got it. Thanks for stating the obvious.

 

Just curious...how much volleyball do you get to watch at the collegiate level?

A lot.