Response to Article: Bradley vs Cleveland Rivalry

[renegade]

There was an interesting article posted on the Times Free press website last week. It seems this article has stirred some deep emotions in those that follow the Raiders from Cleveland and the Bears of Bradley. The article can be found at the following site:

http://www.timesfreepress.com/absolutenm/t...2&zoneid=46

 

I have no ties or allegiance to either school and in fact am quite involved in our beloved sport at different schools and programs. I do know and have close relationships with some of the Cleveland coaches so I feel I can clarify a few points. I have decided to throw my two cents into the mix and also see what others thought of this article and if there was a hidden message intended. I was forwarded this article to read and then I was asked what I thought of it. At first I thought that it was a pretty good article that described the building rivalry between the two schools. Later that day I attended the Cleveland and Soddy match and it was all anybody was talking about. The Cleveland camp thought that it was a direct jab at their program and their biggest supporter.

 

First off I want to say that I found no fault in Mr. Gossetts article. I think we are too politcally correct in todays society. I like someone who isnt afraid to lay it on the line and get people thinking. That being said, I believe Mr. Gossett will have to have some thick skin and be prepared to have some interesting conversations when writing such contoversial articles. Hey, anything that gets people talking about wrestling is a good thing isnt it?

 

The Cleveland side of the argument is that they felt like the article insinuated they were recruiting all of these new kids and that was why they are winning. Lets examine that topic. As far as I know none of the new kids were "all world "wrestlers before they came to Cleveland. Show me where they won a major level tournament of any kind. Heck, show me where any of these youngsters have even won or placed at state level tournament of any kind. Wont happen becasue they havent.

 

Cleveland also felt like that the article was making suggestions as to the "ethics" involved in Mr. Jones being so supportive of their program. I wish I had supporters like that is all I can say. You show me a top tier program that doesnt have tremendous support in this state. It might not be from one person such as Mr. Jones but I can gurantee you the top programs in the state have and will continue to have support from outside the school system. I believe Bradley, Baylor and Soddy are prime examples of powerhouses that have tremendous community support. Mr.Jones also donates money to other schools as was mentioned in the article. Of course he is going to do more for his alma matter and the school his son attends wouldnt you think?

 

Here are the facts as I see them. I have heard people complaining and whining from other schools. It isnt fair that Cleveland has their building, It isnt fair that they have all those coaches. I have heard Bradley people saying how bad they were going to kill Cleveland and how Cleveland is highly overated. News flash..... Of course Bradley will more than likely beat Cleveland. They are supposed to. I havent heard the first word out of anyone from Clevelands mouth about being better than Bradley. I havent heard one word out of their mouth about being better than anyone. In fact they scratch their heads and wonder how they keep winning. Lets face it wrestling is down except for maybe Bradley. But Cleveland is finding ways to win with kids who arent supposed to win.

 

Have they found some secret formula? Are they recruiting all the best wrestlers? No, they are winning with a bunch of inexperinced kids who have bought into the belief that they can be as good as they want to be. They feed off of their coaches enthusiasm and never say die attitude. They arent winning with kids that were handed to them on a silver platter after illustrius kid and junior high careeers like some of the Johnny come lately programs. They are winning with BEGINNERS. Thats right 1st and second year wrestlers with a few rejuvinated veterans thrown into the mix. Dont believe me just go watch the Cleveland Middle School team. They are beating everybody with a bunch of beginnrs as well. In fact they had 5 league champions I believe last season and most were beginners who beat some of our private school studs. I can promise you this. Coach Phillips at the middle school is as good as it gets at any level. There isnt a motivator around who can get more out of a kid than he can. Throw into the mix the new kid in town Mike Hatcher (University of Iowa) and the youngsters up there that are tough enough to walk down the path set forth for them will be light years ahead of anybody elses rising high school wrestlers. But what coach Hatcher is doing isnt just for Cleveland kids. No, It is open to anybody who has the desire to work hard and pay the price to be a champion. This isnt some fancy secretive technique. Its old fashion hard work stressing the fundamentals of position, angles, set ups, controling the pace, and imposing your will on the mat. You take a kid with those fundamentals ingrained into their wrestling and with the work ethic and "warrior mentality" that has been instilled by coach Phillips and turn them over to a technician like Coach Eslinger and the wrestling world better watch out.

 

As far as the rumours about the pictures being taken off of the walls at Bradley. I heard from Bradley, Walker valley and Cleveland people that it was true. Not only that but when the picture went back up it was missing a certain ex-wrestler now rival coach. Do I know this for sure? No, I do not but the people who told me certainly would know.

 

Dang, Im starting to sound like a Blue Raider myself.. I better slow down. People are making a huge deal out of Clevelands success and are ready to throw them in as the next state champions. They arent there yet. They are winning and beating teams becasue they want to win more than their opponents. They have put in the extra time and effort and they go out on the mat willing to do whatever it takes to win. Its simply that and nothing more. But I do predict that they will be up there with the Bradley Countys, Soddy daisy's and Baylors of the word in short time. Look how far they have came in one year. I for one cant wait to watch it happen. There is nothing more special to me than to see a kid overachieve or do things he isnt supposed to do. Thats what is happening at Cleveland becasue their coaches have them believing in themselves. Isnt that what this sport is all about? So, all you crybabys out there who are now getting beat by a team you considered beneath you a few months ago you better wake up. This team wasnt an all start junior high team. This team isnt made up of wrestlers that have been wrestling since they were 6 years old. This is a young bunch of kids and enthusiastic coaches who have outworked you.

[KEV-O]

I would call that a jab

[smallie]

At first I thought that it was a pretty good article that described the building rivalry between the two schools. Later that day I attended the Cleveland and Soddy match and it was all anybody was talking about. The Cleveland camp thought that it was a direct jab at their program and their biggest supporter.

 

The rivalry is not new, it goes back to the mid/late 70's. Cleveland dominated the early years, more recently Bradley has dominated (not just Cleveland either).

 

The article was a jab.

[ru4mocs]

>

 

Why is Bradley "Supposed" to beat Cleveland?

 

Bradley lost more from last years team than most schools have in the first place. How many of Bradley's starters were starters on last years team?

 

To say Bradley is "Supposed" to beat Cleveland or anyone else takes away from the hard work the Bradley wrestlers put in everyday.

[justafool]

"The Cleveland side of the argument is that they felt like the article insinuated they were recruiting all of these new kids and that was why they are winning. Lets examine that topic. As far as I know none of the new kids were "all world "wrestlers before they came to Cleveland. Show me where they won a major level tournament of any kind. Heck, show me where any of these youngsters have even won or placed at state level tournament of any kind. Wont happen becasue they havent."

 

 

A recruit does not have to be an "all world" wrestler to be a recruit. asking kids and families to come to your school is recruiting. hate that this issue has to taint the fine work of the team and coaches, but the actions of a few conected to the program have brought this attention upon them.

[TojoYamamoto]

In fact they scratch their heads and wonder how they keep winning. Lets face it wrestling is down except for maybe Bradley. But Cleveland is finding ways to win with kids who arent supposed to win.

 

This is a young bunch of kids and enthusiastic coaches who have outworked you.

 

I agree with these statements from Renegade. My kid wrestled all summer long and at each tnmt we went to there would be a pack of Cleveland kids. There would usually be a good number of Bradley kids as well. We had two or three! Our kids are just now learning the hard way that you can't ride on the back of tradition, you have to work year-round and make your own way. I'm proud of any success that a year-round wrestler has, regardless of the school he attends.

[2@140]

The pictures referred to in the article were the small pics in the trophy case that were taken down by a team mother who was making a pictoral history of the state champions and ow's at the state.Ask Bayou Bear, because his wife was the team mother Im referring to(Spain). Gibson, Blackmon, Eslinger, Josh West, and Matt Keller were ALL temporarily removed to be copied. Some people wanted to make this an issue and they didnt notice the others missing. They were all put back in in a few days. The timing of all this just happend to occur last year a week before the BC/Cleveland match.And , just like in Soddy the other night it was all anyone could talk about.It led to the incident referred to in the article at last years Cle/BC match. In other words it turned into something more than what was the reality. Those 5 guys were HONORED in the BC historical book. Yet the incident became a negative topic. They were the only guys of all BC state champs to have their picture put in. I have a copy of it myself.However after the discussion pointed out in the article this incident was put to bed by BOTH head Coaches. At least both stated so last year after it was over.

 

I havent seen or heard anyone questioning whether the Cleveland wrestlers are deserving of what they are doing. Quite honestly just the opposite. People have been impressed with victories over noted programs this year. They have obviously worked hard and improved tremendously. I can assure you that Bradley Coaches, wrestlers and fans are taking them VERY seriously.

 

As far as who is supposed to beat who Bradley lost 5 state titles, 11 state finalists,and 16 state medals in 5 seniors (Randolph,Withrow,Johnson,Spain, and Creagan last year.)Only 2 medalist returned. Lets credit them for being able to rebuild and maintain a program with youth and inexperience as well.

 

Also renegade you state you are a neutral observer. But it casts some doubt when you have some of the detailed knowledge of the Cleveland program and Coaches. Interesting that it is your first post(you join the day after the incident at Soddy) and you are neutral yet point by point you make seems to completely defend the cleveland perspective. You talked with and know the cleveland coaches. Did you ask any BC coaches for their perspective on this after you read the article?If so which coach and what was their response? Seems that a truly NEUTRAL observer would do that before posting an elaborate "neutral" opinion for his first post on a wrestling website. My guess is you didnt. Who forwarded it to you and for what purpose? Just your thoughts? It winds up as your first post on Coacht. Maybe Im too skeptical. Could be coincidence.

 

I do not disagree with some of your points but some are inaccurate.To refute them individually only adds fuel to this fire that happend at Soddy and I dont think that is good for either program to air their dirty laundry or other personal problems publicly. Realistically there are two perspectives on this thing and it is seen differently on some of the points you made depending on if you follow the Bears or the Raiders, or which team and coaches you are closer to. A perfect example is that of the historical book above. Sometimes issues are made of nothing, sometimes they have merit.This happens on BOTH sides of the fence. One thing for sure though is this. Both programs are having a great year, have tradition and a great rivalry. Both programs can take pride in that. Preferably that will be the focus of the upcoming clash on Jan 3rd, rather than the negative bitterness that seems to dominate discussion.

 

Again I would like to point out that Clevelands success this year is no fluke. It is from hard work and dedication. They are to be congratulated as those things are paying off for them this year.

 

There has( as there always is) been talk on both sides (not just one )about who will win this year. But isnt that sort of just the nature of the beast? This is a rivalry and both sides want it. The talk or the content of the article really wont matter after the meet has been wrestled. The best team will step up.

[BayouBear]

Hmm. I see nothing untrue in Ward's blog and have no idea why anyone from Cleveland would be concerned or describe it as a jab.

 

Renegade - It's always very interesting when someone goes to the trouble of creating a new identity or account and then starts their first post out by saying..."I don't have a dog in this race, BUT...." Please, we are not stupid. You are a Cleveland person, fan, coach but most likely a parent and probably a middle school parent. It's particularly interesting you feel it help makes your point not to admit it.

 

Here's the bottom line to BOTH your post and Ward's article....

 

Whether it's this year or sometime in the future, Cleveland will eventually beat Bradley. You can paint it with any brush you like but how could it not happen? There is a man with billion dollars in his pocket that is determined to make it happen. He's spent a few million on a wrestling building, is willing to fund trips, camps, coaches, tournaments, summer wrestling, anything. As a person who has supported Bradley for many years, I have no absolutely no problem with his efforts and I definitely don't take it personally. I tend to take it more as a compliment.

 

Bradley has the # 1 public high school wrestling program in Tennessee. If Cleveland High School raises the bar how can that be a bad thing for Bradley? There are times when continued success breeds complacency. If Mr Jones' efforts at Cleveland energizes the BC program, I'm all for it. Because I'm pretty sure the Bears will not go down without a fight.

 

BB

[tnko]

WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREATER RESPONSIBLITY.

[trueblueraiderfan]

Whether it's this year or sometime in the future, Cleveland will eventually beat Bradley. You can paint it with any brush you like but how could it not happen? There is a man with billion dollars in his pocket that is determined to make it happen. He's spent a few million on a wrestling building, is willing to fund trips, camps, coaches, tournaments, summer wrestling, anything. As a person who has supported Bradley for many years, I have no absolutely no problem with his efforts and I definitely don't take it personally. I tend to take it more as a compliment.

 

Bradley has the # 1 public high school wrestling program in Tennessee. If Cleveland High School raises the bar how can that be a bad thing for Bradley? There are times when continued success breeds complacency. If Mr Jones' efforts at Cleveland energizes the BC program, I'm all for it. Because I'm pretty sure the Bears will not go down without a fight.

 

BB

well said bayou bear--before all the negative gets started at christmass time no less--lets look at the positive--between the two schools there have been at least 20 state team championships in the last 15-16 yrs--numerous state champions and place winners from BOTH schools---all this from two schools in the same county--bradley has been on top for a number of yrs---maybe --maybe not-- this is the year cleveland pulls off an upset--but instead of putting the other school down --be proud of both of their teams---and know a few yrs down the road hopefully walker valley will be in this argument---it does not matter where a wrestler came from--we both have our "recruits"----it does not matter that two coaches had a discussion--it is like two brothers--deep down they love each other and will just never admit it--i am sure bayoubear your own sons have had a discussion or two---yes cleveland is lucky--we have a graduate that loves wrestling--he has provided us many great things--but give credit to him for helping other schools too---not just cleveland -bradley and walker valley--true he has helped us out more then the others--again he graduated from here--he wrestled here--his sons wrestle here--but he has still donated to other schools--i wonder if graduate from baylor donated to mccallie with no ties there--or if the man that wrote the biggest check for the bradley building donated to cleveland---this is not a jab at him--i am just saying before putting a man down because he donates to his school look at all the facts--the same man pays to have the wrestling finals on tv---i would dare say for the last several years this has happened that numerous bradley fans ,family members, wrestlers and coaches had the time of their lifes watching a loved one or a friend win a state championship on tv--yet a few so called fans of the sport put the man down because he wants the best for his school---my son for one has friends at all 3 schools--it is hard for me to root against certain kids because they and there parents have treated my son great---there are wonderful fans at all 3 schools---and yes there are morons at all they schools---but realize this--words wrote in a newspaper--words wrote on a blog--words in a message board will not change the outcome of a match on the mat--as a young bradley wrestler told me at our freshman tournament this weekend--"i played football 5 yrs---this is my first yr wrestling---it is the hardest thing i have ever done --AND I LOVE IT"----these are the kids the people i want to talk to at a match--not the ones that can only put down and belittle the competion

[shutout]

My question is why was this article ever written? Mr. Gosset Has always been kind of an ambassador for the sport, now he just decideds to go National Enquirer ? What good did it do, was he really just talking about the rivals and how they go at it, it's like that in all sports they play. Of all the sports I hope that this doesn't turn into a soap opera.

[walkenvol]

Looks like Ward Gossup has developed a case of class envy by taking jabs at a man's financial donations. Thank you Mr. Jones for your efforts to strengthen wrestling at UTC, Cleveland, and any where else you choose. Better wrestling at any of these places makes for better wrestling in TN which ultimately benefits everyone who is interested in wrestling in TN. Isn't it amazing how the folks that don't donate finances to help support these programs like to critque someone who is laying down the cash to make things better? My Christmas wish is for several more Mr. Jones types to appear through out TN who are willing to help wrestling, either that or I get Mr. Jones's green and I'll help out - I think I'll go with the second one.