TSSAA meeting-Classification

[Baldcoach]

Next will be what should have happened already...a total public/private split. Multiply open zone/tuition paying schools. You can then forget the urban/rural thing.

 

 

None of it should have ever happened...it hasn't happened in any other states.

 

Once you start the witch hunt it catches everyone who doesn't conform to what the guardians of the orthodoxy decide is right. I warned all of you 5 years ago as people tried to justify a small private split and then a multiplier that it would't stop with the small privates. Several times I said that if we allowed ourselves to start thinking that "fair" was the same thing as "even" then all schools who were good would be declared to have advantages that weren't "fair" and would be lynched.

 

People made fun. People said it would never come to that. Well, here we are. We are actually discussing splitting the small privates after we have applied the largest multiplier in the nation. And we are discussing grouping the urban and rural schools and either having seperate divisions or putting an "urban" multiplier in. I told you so.

 

Once you decide that it is legitimate to reclassify a subset of schools because they seem to perform well you open the door on ALL schools that outperform the worst schools. So, since the complainers had such success getting the small privates multiplied out, now they will complain about those evil urban schools. Because urban schools win more championships. And because we have allowed ourselves to begin thinking in terms of "unfair advantages" there is a good chance that they will win again. And what have we achieved? We have furthered the idea that any subset of schools that outperforms the poorest performers has "unfair" advantages. So there will be other splits....

 

5 years ago I predicted that within 20 years if someone in a leadership position didn't stand up and say "Enough!" and reverse the trend that we would have at least 4 divisions with at least 3 champs in each for a total of 12 state champs. People laughed. I guess we aren't laughing now.

[PBandJ]

At first, I wanted to ask you what lotto numbers you picked for this weekend's PowerBall drawing. But then I realized that you are pretty much the only level headed person chatting here and that you determined the real psychology of what was driving this effort. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

Take my case for example - my gripe is with Maryville. I can't for the life of me figure out why is it OK to be prejudiced against the small privates for "dominating", but the most dominating school of all time by far that has severe built in advantages doesn't even get a sniff from any public "supporters". (I know why - but I don't really understand it.) /ph34r.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ph34r:" border="0" alt="ph34r.gif" />

 

None of it should have ever happened...it hasn't happened in any other states.

 

Once you start the witch hunt it catches everyone who doesn't conform to what the guardians of the orthodoxy decide is right. I warned all of you 5 years ago as people tried to justify a small private split and then a multiplier that it would't stop with the small privates. Several times I said that if we allowed ourselves to start thinking that "fair" was the same thing as "even" then all schools who were good would be declared to have advantages that weren't "fair" and would be lynched.

 

People made fun. People said it would never come to that. Well, here we are. We are actually discussing splitting the small privates after we have applied the largest multiplier in the nation. And we are discussing grouping the urban and rural schools and either having seperate divisions or putting an "urban" multiplier in. I told you so.

 

Once you decide that it is legitimate to reclassify a subset of schools because they seem to perform well you open the door on ALL schools that outperform the worst schools. So, since the complainers had such success getting the small privates multiplied out, now they will complain about those evil urban schools. Because urban schools win more championships. And because we have allowed ourselves to begin thinking in terms of "unfair advantages" there is a good chance that they will win again. And what have we achieved? We have furthered the idea that any subset of schools that outperforms the poorest performers has "unfair" advantages. So there will be other splits....

 

5 years ago I predicted that within 20 years if someone in a leadership position didn't stand up and say "Enough!" and reverse the trend that we would have at least 4 divisions with at least 3 champs in each for a total of 12 state champs. People laughed. I guess we aren't laughing now.

[Antwan]

None of it should have ever happened...it hasn't happened in any other states.

 

Once you start the witch hunt it catches everyone who doesn't conform to what the guardians of the orthodoxy decide is right. I warned all of you 5 years ago as people tried to justify a small private split and then a multiplier that it would't stop with the small privates. Several times I said that if we allowed ourselves to start thinking that "fair" was the same thing as "even" then all schools who were good would be declared to have advantages that weren't "fair" and would be lynched.

 

People made fun. People said it would never come to that. Well, here we are. We are actually discussing splitting the small privates after we have applied the largest multiplier in the nation. And we are discussing grouping the urban and rural schools and either having seperate divisions or putting an "urban" multiplier in. I told you so.

 

Once you decide that it is legitimate to reclassify a subset of schools because they seem to perform well you open the door on ALL schools that outperform the worst schools. So, since the complainers had such success getting the small privates multiplied out, now they will complain about those evil urban schools. Because urban schools win more championships. And because we have allowed ourselves to begin thinking in terms of "unfair advantages" there is a good chance that they will win again. And what have we achieved? We have furthered the idea that any subset of schools that outperforms the poorest performers has "unfair" advantages. So there will be other splits....

 

5 years ago I predicted that within 20 years if someone in a leadership position didn't stand up and say "Enough!" and reverse the trend that we would have at least 4 divisions with at least 3 champs in each for a total of 12 state champs. People laughed. I guess we aren't laughing now.

 

 

I really don't care about the urban/rural argument. The way to avoid that is to close their zones. Don't accept out of zone athletes. If you do...you are multiplied. If you don't...you are not. That solves that problem.

 

I don't necessarily think the number of classes will increase if they look at urban/rural.

 

The 1.8 multiplier is not much..if any...different than the 1.5 most have. You cannot move up 2 classes anyway.

[Antwan]

At first, I wanted to ask you what lotto numbers you picked for this weekend's PowerBall drawing. But then I realized that you are pretty much the only level headed person chatting here and that you determined the real psychology of what was driving this effort. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

Take my case for example - my gripe is with Maryville. I can't for the life of me figure out why is it OK to be prejudiced against the small privates for "dominating", but the most dominating school of all time by far that has severe built in advantages doesn't even get a sniff from any public "supporters". (I know why - but I don't really understand it.) /ph34r.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ph34r:" border="0" alt="ph34r.gif" />

 

 

You must have your head in the sand too. All some people have done is gripe about Maryville along with Alcoa.

I don't think Maryville's run has had anything to do with being a tuition paying school.

[PBandJ]

You must have your head in the sand too. All some people have done is gripe about Maryville along with Alcoa.

I don't think Maryville's run has had anything to do with being a tuition paying school.

 

You are totally wrong - it has everything to do with it. Maryville folks can get on this board and claim all day long that the majority of their kids live in Maryville proper - but I bet that 20%+ live outside the official zone. I'd bet my life on it. Just like I live in Mt. Juliet. My mailing address says Mt. Juliet, but I do not live in the official city limits.

 

I'd tell you to get your head out of the sand, but I think you probably should pick your chin up off the floor and quit drooling over GQ. He's a good coach - but no one has a record of 100+ wins to 3 losses without a huge advantage. It is impossible.

[Antwan]

You are totally wrong - it has everything to do with it. Maryville folks can get on this board and claim all day long that the majority of their kids live in Maryville proper - but I bet that 20%+ live outside the official zone. I'd bet my life on it. Just like I live in Mt. Juliet. My mailing address says Mt. Juliet, but I do not live in the official city limits.

 

I'd tell you to get your head out of the sand, but I think you probably should pick your chin up off the floor and quit drooling over GQ. He's a good coach - but no one has a record of 100+ wins to 3 losses without a huge advantage. It is impossible.

 

 

I have never mentioned GQ at all. I don't think he is the only reason either. I do think their program is way ahead of any other 4a school. That is obvious. I doubt that many kids pay over $2 K a year to go to Maryville. All they have to do is move into Maryville's zone. I doubt that's very difficult either. It will be interesting to see how they do when they do move up to 5a.

[Indian]

It wouldn't be hard to move such a team up a class depending on the percentage of out-of-zone and/or tuition students are involved in varsity sports, averaged over a couple of years. Even if Maryville had 20 percent on its football team, that might compare to a 1600 or 1700 student school and there are obviously larger schools in the state.

[PBandJ]

I have never mentioned GQ at all. I don't think he is the only reason either. I do think their program is way ahead of any other 4a school. That is obvious. I doubt that many kids pay over $2 K a year to go to Maryville. All they have to do is move into Maryville's zone. I doubt that's very difficult either. It will be interesting to see how they do when they do move up to 5a.

 

I completely agree - I doubt many of the kids pay the tuition fee either. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

 

I agree as well - I'm definitely interested in seeing how they perform in 5A. That is, if they don't figure out a way to stay in 4A. Somehow, they always stay just beneath the threshold. /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

[Indian]

Are you implying they're fudging their enrollment numbers? If so please explain.

[PBandJ]

Are you implying they're fudging their enrollment numbers? If so please explain.

 

I don't know if implying is the right word or not - but it does seem odd that they always fall right below the cutoff - almost literally. It can definitely make you wonder just a little bit. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[Baldcoach]

I really don't care about the urban/rural argument. The way to avoid that is to close their zones. Don't accept out of zone athletes. If you do...you are multiplied. If you don't...you are not. That solves that problem.

 

I don't necessarily think the number of classes will increase if they look at urban/rural.

 

The 1.8 multiplier is not much..if any...different than the 1.5 most have. You cannot move up 2 classes anyway.

 

 

 

How can you say the 1.8 multiplier isn't much different than 1.5? For us it is the difference between 1a and 2a...or, to put it another way, the difference between being a medium sized 1a school to being 1/2 the size of the next smallest school we play. From your point of view that may not seem very large, but from where I sit...well...look at you guys for instance. Good school, good program, top of 2a, almost 3 times our student population and we have met up every year since the multiplier. If we 1.8 you guys you get to play Maryville every year. I bet if that happened you would call for a 1.5 or merit system...

 

And why don't you 'care' about the urban rural argument? Don't you see that by casually ordering up a multiplier because they do things differently than you you have done EXACTLY what I warned everyone about...punished schools simply because they are good and not the same as you?

 

It is a witch hunt...it boils down to this. If you are different than ME in any way and are better than me or any of my friends (some of whom are pretty bad) then I am going to punish you rather than reevaluate ME. Not only that, but I am gonna justify this by pretending some advantage you have that I don't is THE big advantage (but I'm gonna ignore any advantages I have that you don't, because, of course, those AREN'T relevant) so that any school similar to yours, even if they stink, is gonna get punished too.

 

Finally, you don't seem to grasp the fact that EVERY metro system is open zoned by Federal Law, regardless of what they say. That means that ANY county with enough population to have a city/county system or a metro system or more than 1 school is open zoned (at least within that county). That means that 80+% of the public school population in Tennessee is open zoned. Maryville, Alcoa, and the magnets aren't the minority, the minority are the rural counties that only have 1 school. Why should 8 out of 10 student athletes in the State be punished because 2 out of 10 happen to live way out in the country?

 

In reality the only closed zone schools in metro areas are the small privates. They can't offer financial aid like the DII schools, but they still have to charge tuition.

[old24eagle]

How can you say the 1.8 multiplier isn't much different than 1.5? For us it is the difference between 1a and 2a...or, to put it another way, the difference between being a medium sized 1a school to being 1/2 the size of the next smallest school we play. From your point of view that may not seem very large, but from where I sit...well...look at you guys for instance. Good school, good program, top of 2a, almost 3 times our student population and we have met up every year since the multiplier. If we 1.8 you guys you get to play Maryville every year. I bet if that happened you would call for a 1.5 or merit system...

 

And why don't you 'care' about the urban rural argument? Don't you see that by casually ordering up a multiplier because they do things differently than you you have done EXACTLY what I warned everyone about...punished schools simply because they are good and not the same as you?

 

It is a witch hunt...it boils down to this. If you are different than ME in any way and are better than me or any of my friends (some of whom are pretty bad) then I am going to punish you rather than reevaluate ME. Not only that, but I am gonna justify this by pretending some advantage you have that I don't is THE big advantage (but I'm gonna ignore any advantages I have that you don't, because, of course, those AREN'T relevant) so that any school similar to yours, even if they stink, is gonna get punished too.

 

Finally, you don't seem to grasp the fact that EVERY metro system is open zoned by Federal Law, regardless of what they say. That means that ANY county with enough population to have a city/county system or a metro system or more than 1 school is open zoned (at least within that county). That means that 80+% of the public school population in Tennessee is open zoned. Maryville, Alcoa, and the magnets aren't the minority, the minority are the rural counties that only have 1 school. Why should 8 out of 10 student athletes in the State be punished because 2 out of 10 happen to live way out in the country?

 

In reality the only closed zone schools in metro areas are the small privates. They can't offer financial aid like the DII schools, but they still have to charge tuition.

 

I believe your math is wrong or you are playing some very large 2A schools for the smallest one you play to half twice the population you do. By my calculations you have to have close to 300 students for the 1.5 to bump you up to 2A (between 267-270 to be exact) so that would mean that the smallest 2A school you play has 534 students , IF you are at 267.

 

I DON"T KNOW FOR SURE , so don't start screaming but I would be willing to bet yours and most other privates that have Football teams male population greatly outnumbers the female (which gives you a higher % of potential ballplayers) , am I right? Unless I'm wrong that was one reason initially for the multiplier.