Coaches vs. Officials

[Coach2001]

The other topic on the refs got deleted but got me to thinking. This thread is not being started to bash anyone. Let's be civil.

 

My opinion:

 

Coaches vs. Officials

This has become an issue. How many times does this happen? At a meeting or a ride to a game... Ref 1 "This coach and I have had problems in the past and I don't see it being any different." Coach 1 when Ref 1 walks in the gym to call his game. " I can't believe we have this guy....He doesn't like me and I sure don't like him...He cheated us at Gym X and I am never going to forget it." This happens everyday all over the country. This alienates all parties and gives other officials or coaches preconceived notions about each other. It is causing the wonderful game of basketball to erode into knocked down drag out slugfests on a consistent basis.

 

 

Solution/Idea:

 

Local associations and coaches are made aware of dates and meeting times so both can attend. Yes, I know that the state meetings all parties are involved. Local meetings however are not. The meetings will be ran by assigning officers of there respective association. Allow things to be discussed by officials and coaches to get a better understanding of each other. Allow officials to discuss problems that they are having during the basketball games. In turn coaches can discuss problems that they are having during games also. It may help each party to better understand what is going to be called or not going to be called. The coaches will also know what the officials are being instructed to do.

 

Cons:

1. Discussions could get heated and possibly become negative

Act like adults

 

2. Physical Altercations

Fine/Suspend or Ban from coaching or officiating games

 

Pros:

1. Both parties could discuss issues like adults and human beings instead of adversaries.

 

2. Both parties could better understand each others point of view and maybe resolve disagreements.

 

3. Possibility of letting bygons be bygons. Do not begrudge each other for years to come.

 

As you have read this please take this into consideration:

 

COACHES GET FIRED AND OFFICIALS DO NOT!

[Melton07]

Coach, thanks for all you do for the kids ! It is much appreciated by the officiating community.

 

I think you are on to something here and I know that in other states they have one 'local meeting' each year in which all the coaches are encouraged to come. They actually have dinner together and its a good opportunity to 'fellowship' with each other prior to the meeting

 

 

The problems I can see arise if you have an open forum at these meetings is that it turns in to a gripe session and before you know it, it gets out fo hand.

 

 

The coach should address the assigning officer/supervisor privately if he has issues with certain official(s). Then follow up with the coach after speaking to the official(s).

 

 

Publicly blasting a coach or official in a room mixed with coaches and officials could turn very ugly, really quick.

 

But, again I am an advocate for maybe the first local meeting of each season is open to the coaches. Maybe let all of the wives cater it (hahah)

 

 

Thanks again for your input. Good luck the rest of the year.

[Coach2001]

Thank you Melton07.

 

I really think if there was a local board that was elected or appointed that would be made up of coaches and officials, this could help with mediation. And this could be rotated every year to avoid the good ole boy system in both cases. It could be ran more like a board meeting or something of that nature.

Again Thank You

[wildstang]

The other topic on the refs got deleted but got me to thinking. This thread is not being started to bash anyone. Let's be civil.

 

My opinion:

 

Coaches vs. Officials

This has become an issue. How many times does this happen? At a meeting or a ride to a game... Ref 1 "This coach and I have had problems in the past and I don't see it being any different." Coach 1 when Ref 1 walks in the gym to call his game. " I can't believe we have this guy....He doesn't like me and I sure don't like him...He cheated us at Gym X and I am never going to forget it." This happens everyday all over the country. This alienates all parties and gives other officials or coaches preconceived notions about each other. It is causing the wonderful game of basketball to erode into knocked down drag out slugfests on a consistent basis.

 

 

COACHES GET FIRED AND OFFICIALS DO NOT!

 

 

Finally, This subject get's worded properly. Thank you! I have been beating my head against a post trying to fiqure out how to come about this without sounding like i am bashing an official.

 

Good points in your post. What is the solution? Who knows...If there is nothing done with this out of control roller coaster where is it going to land.

 

You know to expect to have call's missed and the scenario you don't believe everything you see. It seems like the games i attend lately not just JC games cause i travel around to different ones There is one official doing his job on the floor and calling them at both ends and sides cause the other official is not calling it.

 

I don't know about everybody else but when i go to work I am ask to do a job and paid to do this job the best i know how. If i do not do my job correctly you better well believe You will get called on the carpet for it.

 

We all know what happen's to the Coach when they do not do thier job or they could be doing thier job but Things not going right in the system.

 

Make the Ref's accountable for thier job, seems to be at least one solution. Just like the bad cop, good cop scenario. Just because of one bad whatever makes the public think they are all bad which we all know is not true. I don't have a kid playing. I just love the game and have a lot of friends kid's playing I go see. Just maybe the ref's need to look at the kid's if they were there own. How would you call the game then? Not ust one kid everyone of them on both side's. Just asking for them to take their job serious as i do mine.. I do not mean to bash them disrespectfully, not bashing just complaining with all due respect. Maybe you can get a comment box from each team and not say where it is from and let the official read the concerns have someone weed out the crackpots and read the legitamate one's. Just MHO....... Thanks

[ernieg]

The suggestion of one meeting a year sounds plausible, but I don't think it work.....Officials vary in ability and experience just like other professions......It is the supervisor and ######./officer that have to decide who to place where and whether a particular referee can handle a particular contest. Most, I said most, officials I know do not hold a grudge when it comes to officiating a certain coach or team...that doesn't mean they appreciate or like that coach, but that they will officiate the game in a professional manner, enforcing the rules and managing each contest. Officials should always take the high road when dealing with a belligerent coach or any situation involving disagreements with players or coaches- even after they have had to penalize......PROFESSIONALISM is the key word....Coaches and players aren't always held to that standard when they are upset, antagonistic, or angry during the heat of the game....Fans and parents expect that...Fans, parents, coaches, and players always expect the officials to be calm, professional, rules knowledgable (a must, and some coaches don't know all the rules, either), and consistent.....tough to do and please all tastes.....

 

Finally, if coaches would just concentrate on coaching and thier assistants the same, referees would be able to do a much better job, game in and game out....The best games are the ones when the referees are never noticed....much of the attention drawn to officials by everyone is, not what they call, but how the coach reacts to thier call...Some may think that the coach "working the official" is a positive thing, but usually just makes the ref's job more difficult.

 

Just a few toughts from an official

[Coach2001]

The suggestion of one meeting a year sounds plausible, but I don't think it work.....Officials vary in ability and experience just like other professions......It is the supervisor and ######./officer that have to decide who to place where and whether a particular referee can handle a particular contest. Most, I said most, officials I know do not hold a grudge when it comes to officiating a certain coach or team...that doesn't mean they appreciate or like that coach, but that they will officiate the game in a professional manner, enforcing the rules and managing each contest. Officials should always take the high road when dealing with a belligerent coach or any situation involving disagreements with players or coaches- even after they have had to penalize......PROFESSIONALISM is the key word....Coaches and players aren't always held to that standard when they are upset, antagonistic, or angry during the heat of the game....Fans and parents expect that...Fans, parents, coaches, and players always expect the officials to be calm, professional, rules knowledgable (a must, and some coaches don't know all the rules, either), and consistent.....tough to do and please all tastes.....

 

Finally, if coaches would just concentrate on coaching and thier assistants the same, referees would be able to do a much better job, game in and game out....The best games are the ones when the referees are never noticed....much of the attention drawn to officials by everyone is, not what they call, but how the coach reacts to thier call...Some may think that the coach "working the official" is a positive thing, but usually just makes the ref's job more difficult.

 

Just a few toughts from an official

 

 

ErnieG,

 

I do agree with many things that you have stated. It is the job of the assigning officer/supervisor to assign all officials to sites and the crew that they will be with (which is extremely difficult). I have seen coaches go crazy after what they thought were missed calls and get T. I have seen officials bait coaches. I have seen coaches go crazy and nothing is ever done to them for whatever reason. I have also seen coaches not say anything and get a T for the first words that come out of their mouth. I understand that convenience of same crew and travel is necessary sometimes(especially with gas prices). However I think if coaches and officials worked together.....then many instances could be avoided. They would become better acquainted with each others point of view. At the risk of sounding like a know it all because I am not. I have many years experience officiating and coaching and no it is not jr. pro but at a much higher level.

Here are a few more suggestions for game management.

 

1. In the pregame meeting.

Always be cordial with each other and do not issue warnings there.

I agree 100% assistants should not ever be critical of an official, but allow them to do some coaching. I think too much emphasis is put on the small stuff. If they jump up in excitement for there team, you do not have to give them a warning or T or tell them to sit down and that has happened on many occasions.

 

2. During the game, as an official you should concentrate more on what is inside the lines than if an assistant stood up or if a coach has stepped a foot outside of the box. As a coach, control what you can control and that is your players attitude and effort. Demeanor by both parties can affect these type of things in a major way.

 

3. I feel that crews should not work back to back nights or even in the same week at the same school. Alot of emotion is poured into these games by all parties.....players, coaches, and officials.... and I think some things could be avoided if that didn't happen.

 

4. I also think that if there is an altercation, then remove that official(s) from those teams for a little while. Adjust the schedule which I know can be a pain.

 

Bottom Line:

If everyone wants to make basketball better then there definitely needs to be some modifications and it can be done.

 

Select a committee of coaches and officials that can discuss situations with each other to find resolution or at least remedy a situation from happening again. I bet schools would be willing to give officials copies of the games they worked. Coaches and players watch alot of film so they can improve. I think officials could do the same.

 

Best wishes to all.

[riverdaleman]

very nice thread let me start by saying i would never officiate basketball too much judgement and they way you see things for example i have seen on the same play one official calls it a block and the other calls it a charge and it then beomces a jump ball now im not the smartest guy but it doesnt seem it can be both SO that is an example to me of how hard basketball is and why i would never do it...while i agree with MELTON if u get a bunch of coaches and officials together to talk about what the officials are doing they will get defensive and it will turn ugly quick

HOWEVER as an umpire for baseball i would love to see how i called a game both behind the plate and the feild and see my positioning and see my zone and how consistant it was etc etc...BASKETBALL all the coaches film their games and officials can review their game and can learn a lot from them selves to improve if they could get 3 games or so and look over it and then if they have questions then take itt ot their assignor and learn from it

this may already be done i dont know but if i were an official i would be trying to do that

[iknow]

All of these are great posts no doubt. I feel that accountability is the biggest issue. Coaches can get a T, or get tossed with fines and suspensions to follow without just cause in some cases. I agree coaches cross the line all the time but so do officials, and with what recourse do the school or coaches have. Most of the time complaints fall on deaf ears and in other cases will get you the "problem" back at your gym on back to back nights for what is termed being a "Cry Baby." This never happens with good officials but more than not you will get a not so good official with an axe to grind.

[luv2ref]

ErnieG,

 

I do agree with many things that you have stated. It is the job of the assigning officer/supervisor to assign all officials to sites and the crew that they will be with (which is extremely difficult). I have seen coaches go crazy after what they thought were missed calls and get T. I have seen officials bait coaches. I have seen coaches go crazy and nothing is ever done to them for whatever reason. I have also seen coaches not say anything and get a T for the first words that come out of their mouth. I understand that convenience of same crew and travel is necessary sometimes(especially with gas prices). However I think if coaches and officials worked together.....then many instances could be avoided. They would become better acquainted with each others point of view. At the risk of sounding like a know it all because I am not. I have many years experience officiating and coaching and no it is not jr. pro but at a much higher level.

Here are a few more suggestions for game management.

 

1. In the pregame meeting.

Always be cordial with each other and do not issue warnings there.

I agree 100% assistants should not ever be critical of an official, but allow them to do some coaching. I think too much emphasis is put on the small stuff. If they jump up in excitement for there team, you do not have to give them a warning or T or tell them to sit down and that has happened on many occasions.

 

2. During the game, as an official you should concentrate more on what is inside the lines than if an assistant stood up or if a coach has stepped a foot outside of the box. As a coach, control what you can control and that is your players attitude and effort. Demeanor by both parties can affect these type of things in a major way.

 

3. I feel that crews should not work back to back nights or even in the same week at the same school. Alot of emotion is poured into these games by all parties.....players, coaches, and officials.... and I think some things could be avoided if that didn't happen.

 

4. I also think that if there is an altercation, then remove that official(s) from those teams for a little while. Adjust the schedule which I know can be a pain.

 

Bottom Line:

If everyone wants to make basketball better then there definitely needs to be some modifications and it can be done.

 

Select a committee of coaches and officials that can discuss situations with each other to find resolution or at least remedy a situation from happening again. I bet schools would be willing to give officials copies of the games they worked. Coaches and players watch alot of film so they can improve. I think officials could do the same.

 

Best wishes to all.

 

by rule, the assistant coach is bench personnel and has the same restrictions as others (players, managers, trainers, etc...); stand to applaud a good play by their team and return to their seat. they should never address an official concerning calls or plays during the game. i'm sure any coach would tell you that part of the a.c.'s responsibility is not to question calls. personally, as a rule for me, if a coach is working hard and coaching, i don't pay a lot of attention as to where he is concerning the coach's box. only when he decides to continually question calls, do i use it as a way of letting him know that he needs to return to coaching. otherwise i have plenty to do as to officiating the part of the game being played on the court. too much of almost anything is bad for anyone. it doesn't particular bother me to go back to back; but i don't like going ten times in a year. i am against removing any official from an assigned game unless he actually instigated a situation that can clearly be seen as a personal offense by him. officials are assigned for a reason to the games. some for their managing experience, some to get more managing exp., some to get more officiating exp., some even for the rules; so, it causes too many problems to reassign officials just to pacify feelings. like someone mentioned, we are authority figures and the adults, we should be able to talk to one another as such. some players have bad attitudes; but the majority of the ones that exhibit those behaviors are mocking someone they have seen do the same. we should realize that coaches and officials are not adversaries. unfortunately the days of men being men are over; we can't yell and scream at each other and then go out to eat after the game and think nothing of it. i witnessed this right before it went into extinction. some of the officials are being moved up to quickly. they officiate well; but, don't have the people experience to handle tough situations when talking to coaches. we, as officials, really need to work on this with the younger officials. just because you can make calls doen't mean that you can officiate. most of our calls are obvious, 10% on the night have are pretty tough and it's those that cause most of the problems. sorry so long; didn't mean to express so much. but; like all officials, once we get started on talking officiating, it's hard to stop.

[Coach2001]

Great Post luv 2 ref.

[Dragonmaster]

Being on both sides of this discussion is interesting. I officiate middle school, 9th, and JV games, and coach JV and Varsity. Communication is # 1, before and during the game. As a coach my biggest grip is the fact that some coaches can go crazy, get by with it, and the attitude is he has earned that right by being successful, while young coaches or less successful coaches are T'ed up much more quickly. Conduct is either right for all or wrong for all. As an official, I attempt to make calls and clear my mind of that particular play as quickly as possible, while being alert to what may be a tendency of certain things happening. Our local varsity officials association meets several times through out the season extensively on Sunday afternoons. We as coaches need to realize that officials all have careers outside of the basketball arena. Many of them would not have time to review games two or 3 times a week. Most call 4 nights a week when you consider all levels of basketball. They have to regularly attend summer camp sessions where they are evaluated on mechanics and ability. In all games I coach in my first evaluation is to determine what possessions did we have a negative occur that could have changed to be more successful. 99 % of the time it is what we do not what the ref calls that causes problems.

[ernieg]

Thanks for comments and opinions on this thread, and no, bench decorum is not consistently addressed, even though it is a point of emphasis....Let me ask all readers, especially the coaches, this one situation and get your opinioed response....True story- High School Game - Head coach has been warned and has seen the hand from me after vehemently arguing a call. After a few more trips up and down the floor, as I pass directly in front of him and he screams while standing, " God ref, you just blew another one!" I stop and immediatly assess a technical foul. Right on cue, one of the asst. coaches pipes in in a normal tone, "That's the first call you have gotten right all night."

 

Question: Would you, if you were in my shoes, call another technical (on the bench)? I'm not going to tell you what I did...I want to know what you would do....If I get enough responses, I may tell you what I did....Everyone I've related this situation to, including fellow officials, have given me various opinions...This thread seems to have some intelligent posters - I would really like your feedback....Thanks