Coaches vs. Officials

[Turnadouble]

Were you at this game? Or have you seen game tape? Or are you going of things you have seen/heard/read?

 

Are you the supervisor of officials?

 

The thing that is bothering me is that you are spending an awful lot of effort to make sure that no one claims the officials had anything to do with the attitude of the fans, but they at the same time you are pointing a finger, openly and publicly at a school for a situation that you may not know everything about.

 

In my past, I have done things that were not smart. Does this mean that I will always do things that are not smart.

 

In my past I dated this girl who turned out to be a money grubbing little tramp. Does this mean that my wife is a money grubbing little tramp.

 

In my past I got into a fight on the playground. Does this mean that I cannot be on a playground, cause I will always get into fights.

 

I agree with most of what you say about who has control over what at a game. But, in that game, there were several, NUMEROUS even, inconsistencies with the officiating. It was indeed one of the worst games I have ever seen from an officiating standpoint. And before you try to hit me with the "credibility" thing. YES I was a registered high school official. I took the tests, I went to the classes, the seminars, I knew the rules, and I worked the games. Somewhere in my pile of boxes I have a patch to prove at least part of this.

 

Poor officiating will cause problems, and as I said before they did not CAUSE the problems the other night, that is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY that caused those problems. But I was there. And I saw the administration, the refs, and coaching staff working to keep that problem from happening. You cannot keep hanging this on the school just because you know of some past issues. You are taking that to a point that is beyond what needs to be done on a sports message board. Grind your axe somewhere else.

 

Gome on Bill you don't sound like a guy who would date a grubbing little tramp:) All jokes aside that is the best post I have read on Coach T in awhile.

[gatorbillmsu]

Gome on Bill you don't sound like a guy who would date a grubbing little tramp:) All jokes aside that is the best post I have read on Coach T in awhile.

 

 

/roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

I was a lot younger, and less wise back then. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

I broke up with her, and a week later she broke into my car. Stole my wallet out of the glovebox, and my Bon Jovi tape (like I said, young and less wise). For about a month, everytime I answered my phone, all I heard on the other end of the line was "YOU GIVE LOVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVE, A BADDD NAMMME"

Good times!!!

 

 

Thanks! /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

(as for the wife: she is the finest human being I have ever met. If I can be half the person she is, I have done well in life!!. And she doesnt even read coachT, so Im not just saying that so she can read it!!! hahaha)

[Turnadouble]

/roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

I was a lot younger, and less wise back then. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

I broke up with her, and a week later she broke into my car. Stole my wallet out of the glovebox, and my Bon Jovi tape (like I said, young and less wise). For about a month, everytime I answered my phone, all I heard on the other end of the line was "YOU GIVE LOVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVE, A BADDD NAMMME"

Good times!!!

Thanks! /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

(as for the wife: she is the finest human being I have ever met. If I can be half the person she is, I have done well in life!!. And she doesnt even read coachT, so Im not just saying that so she can read it!!! hahaha)

 

/roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[wildstang]

I have been gone all day and Look what i missed.. Good post and good replies.

There Have been good points brought up.. Gator, Has good points. Devilish also..

 

I would like to say this, My hubby and I used to years ago keep up with the ballgames around, well he works all the time... My kid is grown and I Still love the game. I get hubby to go to see the games with me three times this year and he is a quite easy going fellow and doesn't get upset much. I am going to have to attend by myself i think cause the three times he has gone he has been livid at the calls that are being made. We grew up with Moe as one of our favorite ref's. They don't make them like him anymore.

 

As a parent I would like to give you this to think about, If you have two kid's on the play ground and one of them is yours. Let's say the other kid knocks your kid down or upside the head, I am sure you just sit there waiting for the other kid to quit {yea! right} Well, the other kid's parent doesn't take action to fix the problem.

 

What is happening now? Yea, you guess it, tempers are starting to boil, maybe not exploding, but gettin ansy,

Well, you separate them, then here we go again the same continues. Are you getting the picture now. This is what's happening at the ballgames..

 

When you have someone's kid on that ball court and your the adult in control of this group of kid's and you are not making the proper correction to control the group. Parents,Fans, or whom ever are not going to sit by and let this kind of action take place. It is Human nature to protect, ok, we allow certain things because it is a physical game but if you wanted your kid to be in a wrestling match or boxing match I assume you sign them up for it. When you play basketball the object of the game is...We all know the answer to that.

 

I myself as a parent know what the people are asking for, it is not the tight calling of a touch foul, but jesus if you going to ride sombody to the ground let's break the saddle's out and call it a Rodeo.

 

The ball game at the first of the year at RBS and JC, they had been a lot of hype and attention coming in to the game. The refs talk to the girls and the game began. Fouls was called when needed and there was control of the game from beginning to end. The fan's despise each other but because it was controlled on the floor everything went very well. Both teams and coaches had respect for each other..No incident occurred. I respect the officials, but i demand there respect as well as i give it. Thanks to the officials that take thier job serious and do it to the best of thier ability.. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

[Turnadouble]

When is the Upperman administration finally going to get some control over their basketball programs ? In the last year, to my knowledge, they have had fans removed from games, coaches ejected (while the team was out of state and did not self report to the state office), officials followed to their locker room and to their car, altercations with fans and student sections.

 

All of this is just within the last year, Bill.

Upperman has lots more to worry about than the officiating in last nights game. Someone over their needs to step up and take control before the 'loose cannons' really hurt someone.

 

Anyone who has ever called a game of any kind should know that you can't catch everything, we all don't see it the same way and being in the stands the fans have a better view of the players. As an official you will never make everyone happy. I understand your take on the officiating part & I have seen fans that will complain no matter what the call is. However, I will have to agree that some of the officiating I have watched this year has not been up to par. I know you said most fans have never picked up a rule book but you don't have to pick up a rule book to know that when a player comes off the floor with a bloody nose or split lip....they were hit. I like to see a ref let the girls play but they should set the lines early so it doesn't come out to be a football game. I wasn't at the UHS/York game the other night but I did listen on the radio. Even the announcer kept committing on how physical the game was & how players were going to get hurt. I don't expect the ref to do crowd control....that is crazy but I do expect them to look out for the player??™s best interest. That's all I'm going to say about officiating.

 

Melton 07, The only problem I have with you is that you come across to be arrogant and no one else could possible know as much about the game. You may be the best guy ever but you don??™t come across that way. If you would handle stuff in a more polite way instead of being so defensive you may gain respect from people & they might listen to what you have to say. I don??™t know who ernieg or some of the other refs are but after reading their post I respect their point of view. That being said??¦after the game at UHS the other night all of the adults were very respectful and didn't get on here and air the dirty laundry on the internet. Someone blames the refs for letting the game get rough and then YOU get on here numerous times & bash one school & say the kids are out of control. Come on don't lash out at the school because people question the refs. Your being a hypocrite??¦.you don??™t want people placing blame and talking about the refs??¦.you don??™t need to place blame and talk about the school.

 

That is my opinion and yes I know it doesn??™t matter what I think but I felt very compelled to say it.

[wildstang]

Anyone who has ever called a game of any kind should know that you can't catch everything, we all don't see it the same way and being in the stands the fans have a better view of the players. As an official you will never make everyone happy. I understand your take on the officiating part & I have seen fans that will complain no matter what the call is. However, I will have to agree that some of the officiating I have watched this year has not been up to par. I know you said most fans have never picked up a rule book but you don't have to pick up a rule book to know that when a player comes off the floor with a bloody nose or split lip....they were hit. I like to see a ref let the girls play but they should set the lines early so it doesn't come out to be a football game. I wasn't at the UHS/York game the other night but I did listen on the radio. Even the announcer kept committing on how physical the game was & how players were going to get hurt. I don't expect the ref to do crowd control....that is crazy but I do expect them to look out for the player??™s best interest. That's all I'm going to say about officiating.

 

The only problem I have with you is that you come across to be arrogant and no one else could possible know as much about the game. You may be the best guy ever but you don??™t come across that way. If you would handle stuff in a more polite way instead of being so defensive you may gain respect from people & they might listen to what you have to say. I don??™t know who ernieg or some of the other refs are but after reading their post I respect their point of view. That being said??¦after the game at UHS the other night all of the adults were very respectful and didn't get on here and air the dirty laundry on the internet. Someone blames the refs for letting the game get rough and then YOU get on here numerous times & bash one school & say the kids are out of control. Come on don't lash out at the school because people question the refs. Your being a hypocrite??¦.you don??™t want people placing blame and talking about the refs??¦.you don??™t need to place blame and talk about the school.

 

That is my opinion and yes I know it doesn??™t matter what I think but I felt very compelled to say it.

 

 

/thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> Every body knew this was coming sooner or later all year long.. I have just been waiting..I agree the dirty laundry needs stay in the laundry room. I had already posted this once. DEMAND RESPECT, GIVE IT, BUT DEMAND IT!

[luv2ref]

Bill, you are entitled to your opinion regarding the officiating just like I am entitiled to my opinion about the school administration not 'handling their business'

 

You and I are the same in that 'we call them like we see them'.

 

I'm off the subject, moving on.

 

 

gator and melton; first excuse the lack of correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation. lack of it in an ealier post sort of scared me off the site but i gained ACCESS through our nice host COACHT and am here. second, i appreciate you both as people of knowledge and understanding. seems like you each had a nerve hit earlier. gator, i agree with you to an extent, our actions do cause reactions amongst a lot of people in the gyms. any game on any nite is subject to get out of hand. i have been in games where we called 30+ fouls in the first half and get in the double bonus with both teams in the second. were we expecting it, were the teams expecting it; were the fans expecting it; of course not; but, things happen when games are being played. but, it is their personal responsibility to control themselves, regardless of the outcome. we as the adults have to set the example. we have to attend games realizing that everyone there has a responsibility the next morning. if fans couldn't go to work the next day because of a headache caused by a foul not called; i would dare say supervisors would suggest that we don't attend any more ball games. parents and adult fans, it's a basketball game; cheer, boo, jump, spin, clap; do it all but stay calm. let the students have the majority of the fun. and when we see them getting upset, it's time for us to step in and calm them down. i love america. i supervise, assign, and observe and see both ends. we have some officials that are not cutting the mustard and should be held accountable as all should. but, due to the numbers of officials and even more the number of quality officials, we have to do what we are forced to do; or, have no officials at some games. we, officials and fans, need to get better. but; we also need to understand that we don't see plays the same. the angles are even different for the officials who are on the floor closest to the action. so, officials need to understand when fans disagree and fans need to understand when officials see it differently. human error has always been a part of the games. we miss calls, players miss lay-ups, and coaches call wrong plays. but through it all we all have a good time and lives are changed for the better because of sports. we need to realize that some kids find sports as a refuge and all the work that coaches and teachers and parents do to try to instill in them positive attributes is sometimes torn down by our negative actions. officiating is as great to us as coaching is to coaches and is a great way to stay close to the game for any athlete who can't go to the next level. it also pays pretty good for a college student who has advanced to the high school level. they know the game and know what is important to it. with them, all we have to do is get them in position to see and make the right call. we can use young, energetic, vibrant people in officiating, plus its getting kinda hard to keep up with them up and down the floor. don't discourage young people from wanting to get involved in officiating by having negative feelings towards fans or officials. hey, i appreciate both of you guys. your positive attitudes are the reason why i don't mind reading and posting. plus i enjoy reading the 'ballerina' posts even though i don't spit, bling, or toss old men who have to stop on their way out and change oxygen tanks to finish the course! officials; just joking. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[gatorbillmsu]

gator and melton; ......

 

 

Luv2,

That was a great post. I agree completely, this is a great game for the kids and for the adults for many reasons. But we are all human, and we all make mistakes.

 

I realize I probably stirred up the trouble by questioning the officiating from that night. As you may have seen, I have acknowleged a few times that these are probably great guys, and other than this one night they may all three be great officials. And I certainly am no questioning their integrity in any ways.

 

It was just a bad night. Unfortunate. And I hope we all learn a little something from it and move on.

 

I also hope that the combination of the threads in this forum about officiating might actually encourage someone to become an official someday and try to keep this a great game for kids to grow up with.

 

I talk to my kid about it all the time. She is still working on getting onto the court as a player, but we are 99.9% certain she is not going to play beyong HS, unless it is a rec league somewhere. Officiating would be a great place for her to keep in contact with the game.

 

I was a ref for a time, but gave it up to spend more time with my kids. The same with coaching. It takes time, and commitment, and I commend both refs and coaches for having the brass to take on these commitments.

 

I will try not to sound like I am sucking up to anyone here, but if you look at Mrs and Mrs Coach McWilliams at Upperman, both teaching, coaching and trying to raise a family. Man, I have a lot of respect for that. It takes a lot of cooperation from other family members and friends to pull something like that off. And I know there are officials that put out the same kind of commitment, but do not get the publicity, or the gratitude that Coaches get.

 

It is a tough job, and I am thankful for all of those that do it.

 

oh, and I have not said this yet while I have been at coachT, but since I have caused so much trouble, I will say it....

 

GO GATORS.

 

/roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[Coach2001]

I have been gone all day and Look what i missed.. Good post and good replies.

There Have been good points brought up.. Gator, Has good points. Devilish also..

 

I would like to say this, My hubby and I used to years ago keep up with the ballgames around, well he works all the time... My kid is grown and I Still love the game. I get hubby to go to see the games with me three times this year and he is a quite easy going fellow and doesn't get upset much. I am going to have to attend by myself i think cause the three times he has gone he has been livid at the calls that are being made. We grew up with Moe as one of our favorite ref's. They don't make them like him anymore.

 

As a parent I would like to give you this to think about, If you have two kid's on the play ground and one of them is yours. Let's say the other kid knocks your kid down or upside the head, I am sure you just sit there waiting for the other kid to quit {yea! right} Well, the other kid's parent doesn't take action to fix the problem.

 

What is happening now? Yea, you guess it, tempers are starting to boil, maybe not exploding, but gettin ansy,

Well, you separate them, then here we go again the same continues. Are you getting the picture now. This is what's happening at the ballgames..

 

When you have someone's kid on that ball court and your the adult in control of this group of kid's and you are not making the proper correction to control the group. Parents,Fans, or whom ever are not going to sit by and let this kind of action take place. It is Human nature to protect, ok, we allow certain things because it is a physical game but if you wanted your kid to be in a wrestling match or boxing match I assume you sign them up for it. When you play basketball the object of the game is...We all know the answer to that.

 

I myself as a parent know what the people are asking for, it is not the tight calling of a touch foul, but jesus if you going to ride sombody to the ground let's break the saddle's out and call it a Rodeo.

 

The ball game at the first of the year at RBS and JC, they had been a lot of hype and attention coming in to the game. The refs talk to the girls and the game began. Fouls was called when needed and there was control of the game from beginning to end. The fan's despise each other but because it was controlled on the floor everything went very well. Both teams and coaches had respect for each other..No incident occurred. I respect the officials, but i demand there respect as well as i give it. Thanks to the officials that take thier job serious and do it to the best of thier ability.. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

 

 

 

It sounds like to me the officials were well prepared for this game.

 

In my opinion, this should be the approach every night for officials. I think too many times officials come into a game and predetermine that this game will be a blowout or one team is far superior to the other. Although this maybe true , there are upsets and there are battles between less talented teams and I think the superior teams sometimes get the benefit of the doubt. I am speaking on this bc I have been on both sides of the fence as I have coached superior and inferior teams as well as officiate.

[Melton07]

It sounds like to me the officials were well prepared for this game.

 

In my opinion, this should be the approach every night for officials. I think too many times officials come into a game and predetermine that this game will be a blowout or one team is far superior to the other. Although this maybe true but, there are upsets and there are battles between less talented teams and I think the superior teams sometimes get the benefit of the doubt. I am speaking on this bc I have been on both sides of the fence as I have coached superior and inferior teams as well as officiate.

 

 

 

Excellent point Coach !!

 

Our philosophy is that each game you work is the most important game in the state that night, because its the most important game to the kids at all levels of play.

 

While working a 'premeir' game is easier to bring your 'A game' you must be mentally prepared each night you step on the court to bring your best effort regardless of your assigned game. The kids and coaches work too hard for you to 'loligag' and only give minimal effort.

[ernieg]

This thread is heading in a great direction....of course it is Friday- and there are some crucial match-ups across the state- teams battling for top seeds in their respective districts....so im sure we will hear some negative feedback after the games tonight....but that's okay...I'll work as hard as possible tonight to be at my best...Good luck to all the teams tonight...The regular season is coming to an end soon...... /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />

[gatorbillmsu]

Excellent point Coach !!

 

Our philosophy is that each game you work is the most important game in the state that night, because its the most important game to the kids at all levels of play.

 

While working a 'premeir' game is easier to bring your 'A game' you must be mentally prepared each night you step on the court to bring your best effort regardless of your assigned game. The kids and coaches work too hard for you to 'loligag' and only give minimal effort.

 

 

I do not know who the tall skinny fella was the worked the Upperman -v- Cannon Co game, (I think that was the right game) but that guy was absolutely the best ref I have ever seen. He was extremely animated, sometimes to the point that you had to almost laugh, ok I admit I did laugh a couple times. But he REALLY enjoyed what he was doing. He put MAXIMUM effort and enthusiasm into his game, and while he probably was not perfect, there was not one person in that gym who was every going to complain about it if he wasnt.

 

He even made himself laugh one time. It was fun to watch.

 

This is not a complaint against others, but I wish they could ALL be more like him.

 

 

Good luck to all the teams and to all the officials tonight. I hope you all have your best games!!!

 

/thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />