avoid the split

[pujo]

If the small privates, 1a and 2a, that are athletically oriented, selectively enrolling quality athletes, would move up tho the bracket they should be playing in this argument would be over. Unless they selectively enroll enough that the 3a and 4a schools can't compete with them either, which they can do. There's no point in having to change everything because of a handful of private schools that want to play below their competitive level. Any time another private school starts playing above their competition they should also have to move up, they should do it on their on. The small public rural schools who are good year end and year out are that way becuase of the hard work put in by the coaches and players for years, a tradition. The privates can get real good overnight, just because of a few "selectively enrolled athletes". The public schools should not have to worry about a private school coming in and taking over just because they have added some good athletes to their program. These private schools should want to "play fair", but they don't, and it is a discredit to their program, the school, and the people who support them.

[Chakra20]

You can thave to seperate rules if a public school is dominating year in and year out they should have to move up to. But what would this creat "Chaos". People moving up and down everytime reclassification occurs. I dont beleive you can have seperate rules it has to be an "Across The Board" rule. Thats like telling the TSSAA they are to only do things that are to public schools advanatges, but that is just my opinion.

[scout]

Pujo,

You claim that privates selectively enroll talanted athletes. Can you give me a single example? Let's start with just one.

 

I'll give you two public school's selective enrollments which I have noted before. Abi Ramsey and Eric Locke.

 

Now, just one private school, please.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Scout, Scout, Scout...Haven`t you learned by now that when you ask such a direct question that you`ll usually get no answer? The best answer you can possibly hope for from this bunch is "you just don`t get it". I know it`s frustrating, but patience is a good thing my friend. But then again..pujo is on record as saying that he`ll answer anything. He said he`s not a politician like the rest of you private types. LOL!!

[Edited by VolunteerGeneral on 6/26/02 10:27P]

[pujo]

I know you'll seen the post the other day about a certian man paying the tuition of a certain student at a certain private school. That sounds more like a scholarship to me then selective enrollment, that's even worse. He wasn't the parent or legal guardian of the young man which makes that illegal by TSSAA standards. I don't know if it's true or not, but not one of you, that love to tell us public supporters how crazy we are denied it. I guess that makes it true. As far as proof goes, I have none, but if I was the TSSAA I would be looking into such accusations, and I'm sure they probably are. What about the post made by caesar shere he stated that he had seen the coaches approaching parents and even taking notes on the players at the middle school ball games. I believe him, and I'm sure a lot more people do to. I'll pose a question to you, can you HONESTLY say it doesn't happen?

[scout]

Pujo,

Again, I think you are talking about the irresponsible accusations made that Coacht deleted. This board is supposed to be "serious" discussions. If the high profile athlete you refer to is supportrd by someone other than parent or guardian, then the school has broken the rules and should be punished. I do not know first hand but the people at the school in question tell me the accusations were pure hogwash.

 

I can honestly say I know of only two athletes that transferred schools to be part of a stronger sports program. Both were public school students.

 

As for coaches taking notes at middle school games, let's talk about known movement of students from one scholl to another for the purpose of playing sports. I named two from public schools. NAME ONE FROM A PRIVATE SCHOOL.

[Edited by scout on 6/27/02 6:16A]

[BIGDOG31]

How many special ed classes and students who qualify for free lunch are in the private schools playing in the "public" division? That is the crux of the selective entrance, at least in my mind. Private schools can choose who they accept, public schools get what they get. Many public schools have a 20 to 30% special ed population along with 50% or more at the poverty level (free and reduced lunch program). THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. I believe that all schools can play in the same orginization, however, they should be separated when it is time for the PLAYOFFS. We have embraced this concept since 1969 when divisions A,AA,AAA, first appeared in Tennessee. We have been "split" since 1969. What we are talking about is to change the way we are split. I think that most agree that it is not fair for a school with 2,000 to compete in the PLAYOFFS with a school with 250. Therefore, we need sparate PLAYOFFS. I hope that the TSSAA will at some point seriously consider separate PLAYOFF systems for Public/Private schools.

[scout]

BIGDOG,

It sounds like you think poor kids and Special Ed. kids cannot play football. I will give you this. Most private schools have strict discipline. They can teach traditional American values like you reap what you sow. They can make their students accountable for their actions. THEY CAN EVEN SAY THE PLEDGE TO ALLIGENCE!

 

If your point is that that type of atmosphere can build an ethic of hard work, discipline and pursuit of excellance, which in turn builds better football programs, then I agree with you.

[BIGDOG31]

It was nice of you to agree with me. You make my point. Public/private are vastly different. Public schools are limited in what they can do to discipline a special ed child. check it out if you don't think so. The difference is not the climate you can promote ,but in the type student who walks in the door. If the student does not get with the program, the private school can send them out the door. The parent is not going to let that happen. If they get sent home from the private school, they land in the public school and scream about their "right" to be there. My point is that private schools do a wonderful job, in most cases, with those students they CHOOSE to accept, and that public schools try to do a wonderful job with everyone else. Therin lies the difference. All I'm saying is that there is a differnce and that there should be a different PLAYOFF system for each.

[pujo]

Its simple. smarter kids make coaching much easier.A big advantage.

[scout]

BIGDOG,

We disagree about the solution. Your solution is to allow the public system to continue to degenerate. Pujo says the secret to Cloudland is hard work, a great small town ethic and a Vince Lombardi type coach. A Vince Lombardi type coach would not last 10 minutes in Metro public schools. He would violate their political correctness rules so fast he would exit in no time. One of Metro's better inner-city coaches was reprimanded for taking some of his players to Sunday school.

 

Small town atmosphere-If the ACLU walked into Cloudland HS, I bet they would be so shocked they would give birth to a two-headed calf.

 

The good rural public schools still operate like the school systems of years gone by. Collinwood still has prayer before each game. Unlike Watertown which stopped saying the Pledge of Alligence years ago to avoid a lawsuit from the ACLU.

 

Instead of running up the white flag against the privates, why not fix the publics. Cloudland and Collinwood are good examples of what can be accomplished by doing it right.

[Edited by scout on 6/27/02 1:10P]

[pujo]

I know the coach at cloudland very well'he,s my brother.he is a credit to the human generation and I am very proud of him.he is harder than a rock and yet one of the most caring people you will ever meet.If i was a writer I could write a bestseller book on the life of mike lunsford.I'm definately not a writer but it would make a very touching story.You are right scout about him not lasting ten minates down there.He's to old school'and disapline oriented.He gets more out of his teams than anyone I've ever been around.he coached 7th and 8th grade basketball this past year and guess what'they were undefeated and the player of the year in the whole area was his daughter'not a coincident.She plays harder and cares more because of him .Please don't take this as braging.If I could tell you the story of his life,you would be proud of him also.Don't be suprised to see that gold ball in his hands this year,HE WANTS IT.