The merit based system....

[pujo]

Here is an example of this system,you have a straight A student because they pay attenion ,and give their very best effort and then you have Mr lazy who could care less,so you penalize the good student and make it much tougher and make the work really easy for the bad student,even it out.How in the world could this be fair.I will give the same example in a real football situation.In our conference we have 6 teams and every single one of them has more students than we do.We beat the tar out of them reguarly.We,re not in a location thats loaded with talent.We just out work them and thats all there is to it.We get a high percentage of the boys out and they work their butts off.Every one of these other teams has more potential simply because they have more to pick from.It.s extremely hard at these small rural public schools.To win at these places it takes extreme devotion and alot of support from everyone around you.You don't penalize effort or reward laziness.The reason I think private schools should be moved is because of the talent pool they have to pick from.I am sure they work hard but at the same time they have alot to work with.They have smart dedicated students with total support from their parents.They should be very proud.They will accept nothing less than the best.Can anyone honestly tell me you cannot see the differences.Apples and oranges. I'm not trying to be mean to anyone,I'm just telling it like it is.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

pujo,

 

I understand your example...but let's look at what you said.

 

They have smart dedicated students with total support from their parents.They should be very proud.They will accept nothing less than the best

 

Do I agree with that...YES

 

Is that a reason for seperating public and private...NO

 

First off...they can't PICK anyone...until that person comes up to them with the finances and says, I want to go to your school can they decide on him...I have a friend who now could honestly be playing D1 football or D1 basketball and He wanted to go to our private school...he was about 6'4 275 pounds runs around a 4.8 and benches over 380...he applied but his grades were not good enough...Gosh think if we had him though? He would be all world against private schools...so I don't believe this we get to pick stuff...thats BS, instead hes goin to the school he is zoned to...I want to here your argument against that ELA, my school probably could have won state in football, no one was going to stop that kid from blocking, posting up, or tackling him.

 

Look at Vanderbilt...guys like Ron Mercer that would have loved to have gone their, but their academic standards and financial criteria make it nearly impossible to walk on or get a scholarship...and there are several walk-ons in football and basketball that make an impact, Nathaniel Root, Clyde Wade were two and now they play for Memphis.

[VolunteerGeneral]

just1np...I`ll respond kinda in the order of points that you brought up.

 

I think I make my self very clear. Why aren`t you sure on my stances?

 

If I sometimes repost something, it is only to make clear of the post I`m repsonding to. Sometimes I read responses to my posts and it is hard to figure out which one they are responding to. If you had already read the post by ELA, then don`t read it again if you don`t want to. It wasn`t that long anyways.

 

I am a public school parent and I quite often point that out because some people here think that if you support public schools, then you are for a change. I`m embarassed by the attitudes by some of my fellow public school supporters.

 

I often say "this is what you said" in a post. Of course I could just copy and paste it and save the trouble of paraphrasing the quote, but that seems to irritate some people. When I make a post That responds directly to what someone says, I want them to know exactly what I`m referring to.

 

ELA had every right to say that. I goofed. But if you had been reading the other thread, you`d have seen that I had already apologized to ELA. I had thought his combination plan separated the pub/pri. I read it wrong. I apologized .When I`m wrong, I`m man enough to admit unlike a lot of other people here when you prove them wrong. There are some on here that will post crap that isn`t right and you can point out how wrong or contradictory their post was and they will never acknowledge it.

 

You don`t sound like a turd just1np. I enjoy reading your posts. I`ll try to be more careful of the reposting someone else`s post thing. But, I`ll warn you now...I`m getting ready to respond to pujo`s post on here and I`m going to copy and paste a quote he made on a different thread. It`s just to point out how he never remains cosistent in what he says.

[pujo]

I understand that all kids cannot get into the private schools but at the same time you draw from a population of a million or so.Look at the amount of college recruits from the 1a privates and the 1a publics.Somehow I can't feel sorry for you .Our enrollment is still smaller than ALL of the good private schools.and we can.t turn anyone back .You would have to be Perry Mason to argue your case.You simply have no case.You are getting and have been getting enough good atheletes to compete at the 2a level where Ela,s combination plan would put you.

[ELA]

IN coaching circles, there is a saying, "Private schools don't bring very good gates." I have generally found that to be true. Most private schools don't travel well. Maybe it is simply a matter of numbers, I don't know? The only private school that I have coached against who travels well is BGA. Even when I was at Brentwood H.S., our game with BA (four blocks away) didn't sell out on the visitors side. I know you can't make a general statement about all private schools and that was not my intention, but there are some schools who "travel well" and some who don't.

 

Fans don't look at these issues because they are only interested in winning or losing! But coaches and administrators always schedule some games they know they don't have much of a chance of winning just for the gate and concession revenue every other year! We call these gate games. I don't like this term or idea, but I promise you, if a coach can raise an extra $10,000 every two years off of a single gate, he will add that team to his schedule!

 

The general consensus from every public school coach I have ever talked to is that small D1 private schools (in general) don't bring large gates when they are on the road!

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I'm just saying...private schools should get put in 2a because they have a larger pool to draw from? You can't recruit...don't you understand that?

 

I know you said your school is smaller than others...and I understand that, my school isn't the biggest in Division 2AA...or the second biggest, or the third biggest, or the fourth biggest, or the fifth biggest...but we still have gone the semi-finals the last 2 years.

 

As far as getting athletes...private 1A schools are getting athletes who pay to go there, these guys aren't mercenaries, and as someone said earlier...most of these kids enroll as 9th graders...who can tell how good someone is in the 9th grade? When I was in the 8th grade I scored 5 touchdowns and 2 2point conversitions in 5 junior high games...as a senior I only played defensive end (no touchdowns in 4 years of varsity football, 1 reception thats it)...Wouldn't you agree that the kids get better not by themselves but by the program they are in? That's a credit to the coaches, and work ethic...which has nothing to do with finances...most of the teachers at private schools get paid signicantly less then public school teachers, and their budgets aren't very big either, as I stated before, we raised money and were then able to buy things...coincidently the last 2 years have been the best years my school has ever had.

 

As far as being in 2A that's fine...but what ELA doesn't realize is...he's fixed the problem for himself...good job ELA, but that isn't going to help the schools in 2A or 3A...if you are going to put all the private and public schools in their, and ESPECIALLY if you let the Division 2 Financial aid teams come back...then you are going to see heck on earth...privates will start winning again, 2A will be mad cus these guys are playing up and forced to play them, and they will complain that 1A escaped doesn't have to play these teams and that the private schools should play the 3A and 4A teams (which I honestly understand)...I enjoy your remarks pujo, I think they are informative and well thought out.

 

-P.S. I was never looking for the sympathy vote, I played 4 years without injury, got to go on road trips, win some games, lose some games, and enjoy every minute of it...I feel blessed not gloomy.

[VolunteerGeneral]

pujo..you make the post below and yet on another thread, these are your exact words....

 

"I think it should be decided by the capability you have.Thats why i like ela,s combination plan.It puts teams with the same capabilities together for the most part"

 

DUH!...That`s what my plan does pujo. It put`s teams with the same capabilities into the same classes. I guarantee if ELA had come up with the merit system plan and I had come up with the combination plan, you`d be all for the merit plan.

 

The merit plan is much more fairer,at least in concept than ELA`s plan. There is no question about it. Summarily adding a multiplier to all private schools, IS NOT FAIR!! That may be how it is done in some other states, but that doesn`t make it right. ELA says to have an open mind. Why can`t Tennessee come up with a system that is more fair than any other? Maybe other states will look at our program and say.."Hey, that`s pretty innovative!"

 

Someone else posted on here, that if you`ve went to a private school, then you realize how ridiculous some of my fellow public school supporters ideas and preconceived notins about private schools are. Pujo...you don`t realize how true that statement is. For some on here, to have a valid opinion, you must be a public school coach. If you don`t coach at a public school, then you can`t possibly know a thing. That`s CRAP. I could just as very easily turned my college degree into a teaching position and been a public school coach just like others on here. My position wouldn`t have changed one bit. What`s sad is this quote by ELA..."My life work is coaching football and I don't do it, or talk about it, as a hobby! It is the driving passion that makes my life have value!" You know why? Because ELA got a college education, got a teacher`s degree, got a teaching position and his number one concern is coaching football. He doesn`t say his driving passion is educating our kids. He doesn`t say that teaching a kid something important is what gives his life value.

Anyways, that`s just a few thoughts that have crossed my mind. Glad to share them with you.

 

Just1np...sorry for reposting the quotes!!

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I like ELA and VG...

 

VG my problem with your plan is simple...like I said about the Bishop Byrne thing...they won state, yet lost to ECS a team that lost in Division 2-AA in the first round...if you look at the numbers they would have lost to BCS (beat ECS 19-3) lost to Harding (beat ECS 14-7 and 7-0) and would have lost to BGA (state champs) Webb (a team that beat BCS)...I know I know Byrne still might not have moved up, but that is a perfectly good example.

 

 

 

 

We can also say that BGA would have lost to every division 2-AAA team...considering they went 0-2...and no D2-AA team was able to beat a d2-aaa school...

 

I like the idea of picking your schedule, but I don't see it happening, that causes a lot of headaches, traveling, and like I said earlier not to many teams are going to want to play Melrose at Home, or East at Home, or Goodpasture or Lipscomb at home when they can schedule someone else to play them at their house, and get an easier win. Remember, several Memphis city schools don't have fields and must play at Halle stadium, John P. Freeman, the fairgrounds, or somewhere else, I don't know how them picking their schedule would effect that, but it might not be a good idea. As far as private schools not bringing people, I buy that, your football knowledge and history is better then mine...some privates bring a lot of people though, MUS, ECS, CBHS, HARDING, BCS are all known for bringing people

 

 

Something needs to happen, I don't think the D2-AA schools are going to survive..St. Benedict is losing every game they play (and only have 1 scholarshipped person) and Father Ryan and Catholic have expressed an interest in possibly leaving...that is scary, but I understand it completely...when you make a team pay that cross state game, it really hurts gate revenue, which is bad for both parties. I'm not going to sit here and bad mouth VG or ELA for their plans, because I am still trying to figure one out on my own (it might take me a while) but I commend you guys for trying.

[ELA]

Volunteer General, I think you make these statements just to get people to respond to you. Don't make so much out of quotes from a message board, Most people simply, read, type, and move on... not really thinking someone will write a thesis or antithesis about their postings on a football message board! Having said that I feel compelled to respond to your last post about me. Don't put extra words in my mouth or try to make them imply something they do not!

 

My words were as follows: "My life work is coaching football and I don't do it, or talk about it, as a hobby! It is the driving passion that makes my life have value! Some people fish, I coach! It is what I do." You took that to imply that I didn't like teaching or consider it unimportant? Boy, you really missed the mark on that one. I hold a Masters Degree (+) in Education and I am qualified to teach History or Aviation at the college level. As a matter of fact, I am one semester and a Thesis (book) away from a PH.D. I have served on several curriculum committees over the past ten years and I belong to two professional education associations. I have written several essays and reports on education in America and have spent much of my professional life in the field of education. What I was simply saying was COACHING FOOTBALL IS MY DRIVING PASSION! I teach because it is a part of being a high school coach, but it is not what I do for fun! Millions of people go to work and punch a clock all over our nation, and even though they appreciate having a job, it is not necessarily their "driving passion." Guess what, there's nothing wrong with that and it doesn't make them less of a professional. My doctor is very good, but he has other things he likes to do (fish, play golf, etc.). I have an assistant coach that says fishing is his passion! My mother-in-law's passion is outdoor photography. MY PASSION IS FOOTBALL! Some people fish... I don't fish; some people play golf, I don't play golf; some people love NASCAR, I hate NASCAR... simply put, I LOVE FOOTBALL. PERIOD!

[silverpie]

Take the computer ratings (Earl Nall, Sonny Moore, etc.) over the past few years. Put the 64 best teams in Division I, the next 64 in Division II, the 64 after that in Division III, and the rest (109) in Division IV.

 

Each year, the teams in the Final Four of all divisions except I move up. The four worst by the computers in each division except IV move down.

 

New schools always start at the bottom. Once enough new ones join up that Division IV has 128, split off its top 64 as Division IV and put the rest in Division V.

 

I actually don't prefer this plan (my preference is for a variation of ELA's combination plan, with a Pennsylvania-style setup for the rest of the sports), but if you're going to use ability, let's go with it all the way.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Silverpie...What do they do in Pennsylvania?

[silverpie]

is to have eleven fixed districts (each is a set of counties, except that the City of Pittsburgh is separated from the rest of Allegheny County). Each district's state places are allocated in proportion to the number of schools competing for them. In some sports, there is an intermediate quadrantal level, which would be replaced by a grand-division level in Tennessee.