pitchers crow hop/replanting

[hits123]

This is just a pet peeve of mine, so I thought I would throw this out for discussion and opinions....

 

I have seen many of the softball pitchers replanting their push off foot about 6-12 inches in front

of the rubber. I call this crow hopping.

 

In several of the rule books from 4-5 years ago when I was coaching, this was listed as an illegal

pitch, and if called, any base runners would move up one base.

I pointed this out to umpires many times. In most if not all instances, they replied, "As long as the

push off foot points to the ground before or when pitch is released, it is not crow hopping".

 

I know this topic falls under the gray area of umpire judgement, but I believe this is overlooked.

 

Some pitchers do this on every pitch, while other only do it when they want to get a little "extra"

on their fastball.

 

I beleive this should be called period......or just stricken from the rule books.

 

Opinions?

[softballscout]

never will be called. this is why. the umpires i have talked to state that 99.9% of the fields are not level or they are dug out where the pitchers drag. at this time it is an imaginary line they go by, so the pitcher gets a benefit of the doubt. even in travel ball it is not called, however they do call pitchers that step back ever so slightly. will not see it at the college level unless the umpire feels it is a distinct advantage.

[hits123]

never will be called. this is why. the umpires i have talked to state that 99.9% of the fields are not level or they are dug out where the pitchers drag. at this time it is an imaginary line they go by, so the pitcher gets a benefit of the doubt. even in travel ball it is not called, however they do call pitchers that step back ever so slightly. will not see it at the college level unless the umpire feels it is a distinct advantage.

 

The most blantant IMO, are the ones when they push off from the rubber, with their throwing hand inside

their glove, and leap toward the plate. Their push of foot lands on the ground, BEFORE their throwing hand

leaves the glove to start the windmill. After an inning or two, you can clearly see in the dirt, where they are

landing and pushing off with the re-plant

[swingaway]

never will be called. this is why. the umpires i have talked to state that 99.9% of the fields are not level or they are dug out where the pitchers drag. at this time it is an imaginary line they go by, so the pitcher gets a benefit of the doubt. even in travel ball it is not called, however they do call pitchers that step back ever so slightly. will not see it at the college level unless the umpire feels it is a distinct advantage.

 

Well, I disagree it isnt called in travelball. In 18U Gold nationals, they are pretty picky. Umpires that do not call crowhopping are only hurting the young lady who is illegal. The Soddy Daisy pitcher was at 18U gold and I watched a game where every other pitch she threw was called illegal. Their team lost something like 5 or 6 to nothing because of it. They do call it in college too. The same pitcher was pitching against MTSU at MTSU this fall. Again the umpire called illegal pitch over and over, needless to say Southern Illinois didnt have a good game against MTSU. THat is so unfair to this pitcher. She pitched around here for four years like that. They never called it! Now she is in college trying to make all these adjustments and guess what ...it is hard. I wish the best for her.

There is another pitcher , this year, who is very illegal. When she throws a screw ball , she clearly steps a full FOOT outside the pitching rubber. Highly illegal. It is never called. What do you think is going to happen to this talented young lady when she tries to pitch Gold or in college? The local umpires are doing these talented young girls no favors. I know it is easier to NOT call it , but it is wrong.

[Antwan]

Well, I disagree it isnt called in travelball. In 18U Gold nationals, they are pretty picky. Umpires that do not call crowhopping are only hurting the young lady who is illegal. The Soddy Daisy pitcher was at 18U gold and I watched a game where every other pitch she threw was called illegal. Their team lost something like 5 or 6 to nothing because of it. They do call it in college too. The same pitcher was pitching against MTSU at MTSU this fall. Again the umpire called illegal pitch over and over, needless to say Southern Illinois didnt have a good game against MTSU. THat is so unfair to this pitcher. She pitched around here for four years like that. They never called it! Now she is in college trying to make all these adjustments and guess what ...it is hard. I wish the best for her.

There is another pitcher , this year, who is very illegal. When she throws a screw ball , she clearly steps a full FOOT outside the pitching rubber. Highly illegal. It is never called. What do you think is going to happen to this talented young lady when she tries to pitch Gold or in college? The local umpires are doing these talented young girls no favors. I know it is easier to NOT call it , but it is wrong.

 

 

I've seen it called...and I've seen it not called. Most pitchers in college are legal. Most don't crow hop...most fly when they are illegal. They tend not to call it unless the opposing coach complains. If the coach complains...they will call it.

Usually...if the pitcher is not gaining an advantage...they let it go. Of course...on the road you get some "interesting"

umpires. You are right about stepping outside the rubber. I've only seen that called once...and that was in the state tournament. A lot of pitchers do it.

[hits123]

Well, I disagree it isnt called in travelball. In 18U Gold nationals, they are pretty picky. Umpires that do not call crowhopping are only hurting the young lady who is illegal. The Soddy Daisy pitcher was at 18U gold and I watched a game where every other pitch she threw was called illegal. Their team lost something like 5 or 6 to nothing because of it. They do call it in college too. The same pitcher was pitching against MTSU at MTSU this fall. Again the umpire called illegal pitch over and over, needless to say Southern Illinois didnt have a good game against MTSU. THat is so unfair to this pitcher. She pitched around here for four years like that. They never called it! Now she is in college trying to make all these adjustments and guess what ...it is hard. I wish the best for her.

There is another pitcher , this year, who is very illegal. When she throws a screw ball , she clearly steps a full FOOT outside the pitching rubber. Highly illegal. It is never called. What do you think is going to happen to this talented young lady when she tries to pitch Gold or in college? The local umpires are doing these talented young girls no favors. I know it is easier to NOT call it , but it is wrong.

 

I thought the pitcher for Arizona was stepping outside the pitching rubber on her screwball, last year

against UT in the College World Series. I don't recall it being called, but thought it should have....maybe UT

would have won.

[swingaway]

I thought the pitcher for Arizona was stepping outside the pitching rubber on her screwball, last year

against UT in the College World Series. I don't recall it being called, but thought it should have....maybe UT

would have won.

 

If she was I didnt notice. I wasnt at the college world series though , I watched it on TV, not exactly in a position to judge.

[swingaway]

I've seen it called...and I've seen it not called. Most pitchers in college are legal. Most don't crow hop...most fly when they are illegal. They tend not to call it unless the opposing coach complains. If the coach complains...they will call it.

Usually...if the pitcher is not gaining an advantage...they let it go. Of course...on the road you get some "interesting"

umpires. You are right about stepping outside the rubber. I've only seen that called once...and that was in the state tournament. A lot of pitchers do it.

 

 

 

Caught in the Act!

[Old Warhorse]

Great example. It is an illegal pitch because she is leaping. The push off foot is not in contact with the ground. It is illegal right now. Some not all crow hoppers leap before resetting. Crow hopping is a tough call on the umpire because he has to determine that the push foot is being replanted before the ball comes past the hip. Leaping is different and easier to call illegal. Calling an illegal pitch is akin to calling a balk in baseball, "if you can't explain it, do not call it".

[my2cents]

If the umpires do not think the pitcher gets an advantage, then why do the pitchers do it? The pitchers know they do and will continue to do it until it is called. NFHS seems to think they get an advantage, check this out.

 

http://www.nfhs.org/web/2008/02/softball_v...__training.aspx

[Antwan]

Caught in the Act!

That's not leaping...it's flying. Leaping with your toe in contact with the ground is not illegal. Flying is both feet off the ground with the ball in your hand.

If the umpires do not think the pitcher gets an advantage, then why do the pitchers do it? The pitchers know they do and will continue to do it until it is called. NFHS seems to think they get an advantage, check this out.http://www.nfhs.org/web/2008/02/softball_v...__training.aspx

If you replant it is a definite advantage. You can gain 3 or more mph. It's not difficult to watch a pitcher and see if they are gaining an advantage. If they aren't...most umps won't call it.

[JC#1fan]

That's not leaping...it's flying. Leaping with your toe in contact with the ground is not illegal. Flying is both feet off the ground with the ball in your hand.If you replant it is a definite advantage. You can gain 3 or more mph. It's not difficult to watch a pitcher and see if they are gaining an advantage. If they aren't...most umps won't call it.

 

Don't know where the term "flying" comes from, but here is the simple answer to all these questions. To crow hop, leap, or fly both feet must leave the ground. Both feet leaving the ground by definition in all sanctioning bodies is illegal and very easy to see and call. I could see some latitude to a pitcher where a hole is "dug" out in front of the mound,but this leaves an area for conflict in the rules. This is a call that will hardly ever be called and I personally don't understand why. As with the earlier post, I agree inot calling this only hurts them at the next level. This is evidence of poor fundamentals being taught at an early age as with any other habit they are harder to break than eliminate when first learning to pitch.