UMPIRE FEEDBACK NEEDED

[riverdaleman]

I am not trying to be a smart-elic here, just trying to compare something to make you think. Umpires, whether they love the game or not, are payed to do a job. The compariaon I would like to make is in law enforcement. If we allowed police officers to make the law where would we be, because they have no one to answer to. They, like umpires, are not asked to make the laws just enforce them. I know it is impossible to get everything right, but ask anybody here on this post and all they will say is that they want is consistancy. If it is a rule, enforce it! If not get it out of the rule book! We need more umpires that care about the game and the girls, but it does not help them in any way to allow them to pitch illegaly. Do you think any college coach will look twice at a girl pitching illegaly? Not unless she is above average and they think they can fix them and old habits die hard.

 

not a good comparison because a cop doesnt pull over everyone going 1 mile over the spped limit they only get the ones that are going about 10 miles an hour over...if they were to pull over everyone going 1 MPH over the speed limit it would get pretty demanding and they wouldnt be able to do anything else...i DO NOT KNOW INS AND OUTS OF SOFTBALL and actually i do not know what a crow hop is from a pitcher but by reading what one of the umps say if he were to call it everytime it would kill the game...I DO NOT KNOW but just a guess

[JC#1fan]

not a good comparison because a cop doesnt pull over everyone going 1 mile over the spped limit they only get the ones that are going about 10 miles an hour over...if they were to pull over everyone going 1 MPH over the speed limit it would get pretty demanding and they wouldnt be able to do anything else...i DO NOT KNOW INS AND OUTS OF SOFTBALL and actually i do not know what a crow hop is from a pitcher but by reading what one of the umps say if he were to call it everytime it would kill the game...I DO NOT KNOW but just a guess

 

I understand your point, but what I was intending to say was that police officers like umpires shouldn't make the rules just enforce them. What if a cop could decide to write tickets for everyone that was 1 mph below the speed limit, what confusion would there be then? In this discussion the rules are very clear, easy to see and enforce, they really are a major offence like the 10 mph over the limit you refereed to. As I said these offences are easily defined and if the respective coaches can't see them and fix them one of two things should happen. Either they should be penalized as the rules state every time their pitcher throws illegal or they shouldn't be coaching.Would you want a coach instructing your player to not wear a batting helmet, same difference they are both illegal. THere are so many variances in calling that most pitchers don't knowwhat they can do. The one thing that I have seen and don't understand is when coaches get so mad when a ump calls an illegal pitch. Its their job to have that under control before the season starts. Any girls that throws illegal can be taught to throw legally, unfortunately it is like any habit, it is hard to break once started and the only way to stop it is to call it. I understand that some teams don't have a "true" pitcher, but if a lesser talented pitcher is allowed to throw illegaly you must allow the dominant to throw illegaly and then lopsided games could really get ugly.

[softballscout]

Like a strike zone, if you are going to call it, call it, but call it both ways. The best we can hope for is a consistant umpire. Not an umpire who calls nothing illegal all game, then calls it in a crucial time. This is usually after the coach figures out his batters cannot hit, so they resort to getting in the umpires ear. Great pitchers will adjust to strike zones and to what the umpire will call or not call. Umpires are not perfect, but we do expect consistancy.

[swingaway]

I understand your point, but what I was intending to say was that police officers like umpires shouldn't make the rules just enforce them. What if a cop could decide to write tickets for everyone that was 1 mph below the speed limit, what confusion would there be then? In this discussion the rules are very clear, easy to see and enforce, they really are a major offence like the 10 mph over the limit you refereed to. As I said these offences are easily defined and if the respective coaches can't see them and fix them one of two things should happen. Either they should be penalized as the rules state every time their pitcher throws illegal or they shouldn't be coaching.Would you want a coach instructing your player to not wear a batting helmet, same difference they are both illegal. THere are so many variances in calling that most pitchers don't knowwhat they can do. The one thing that I have seen and don't understand is when coaches get so mad when a ump calls an illegal pitch. Its their job to have that under control before the season starts. Any girls that throws illegal can be taught to throw legally, unfortunately it is like any habit, it is hard to break once started and the only way to stop it is to call it. I understand that some teams don't have a "true" pitcher, but if a lesser talented pitcher is allowed to throw illegaly you must allow the dominant to throw illegaly and then lopsided games could really get ugly.

 

 

I agree with everything you guys say but the problem will never be fixed until these guys get called for what they do illegal, I hate that the umpires pick and choose who they call illegal, and when they call illegal pitches even at the top levels.

Mowatt - Championship College pitcher- Arizona - taken this year- crowhop -she is literally pitching from 3 ' in front of the rubber.

[minihaha5]

I agree with everything you guys say but the problem will never be fixed until these guys get called for what they do illegal, I hate that the umpires pick and choose who they call illegal, and when they call illegal pitches even at the top levels.

Mowatt - Championship College pitcher- Arizona - taken this year- crowhop -she is literally pitching from 3 ' in front of the rubber.

 

 

One cannot call that a crowhop or a leap from that still picture. All pitchers push off from the rubber(or they should) and if her foot is always in contact with the ground and her motion is continuous, it is a legal pitch. Wouldhave to see the video.

[FridayMainEvent]

One cannot call that a crowhop or a leap from that still picture. All pitchers push off from the rubber(or they should) and if her foot is always in contact with the ground and her motion is continuous, it is a legal pitch. Wouldhave to see the video.

 

I agree with that. Although that does appear to be a very long drag for the arm to still be at the top of the circle, the heal is clearly off the ground. I'd have to see the entire pitch also to call it one way or the other. It is suspicious though..

[swingaway]

I agree with that. Although that does appear to be a very long drag for the arm to still be at the top of the circle, the heal is clearly off the ground. I'd have to see the entire pitch also to call it one way or the other. It is suspicious though..

 

Guys, it is very clear due to the angle of her back foot and the position of her arm she is taking a second push off from this point. Here I will give you a video of her going outside of the 24" lane on a screw ball. She is pitching against Peroni who plays for Tennessee ( used to play for Goodpasture)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEZa2r6mTL0

[swingaway]

Here is a leaper- she was SEC pitcher of the week-

Hendon - South Carolina

[swingaway]

Here is Cat Osterman , our olympic team pitcher leaping.

[minihaha5]

Guys, it is very clear due to the angle of her back foot and the position of her arm she is taking a second push off from this point. Here I will give you a video of her going outside of the 24" lane on a screw ball. She is pitching against Peroni who plays for Tennessee ( used to play for Goodpasture)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEZa2r6mTL0

 

Heel off the ground means nothing as my daughter only has her toe in contact with the ground after pushing off. That is what she has been taught. Second, the drag coincides with the downward motion of the arm to the release point, so as I noted before, we would have to see it in person or on video.

[Antwan]

Here is a leaper- she was SEC pitcher of the week-

Hendon - South Carolina

 

 

 

Leaping is not illegal. Flying is illegal...as is crow hopping. Leaping & dragging is a style of pitching where you leap from the rubber and drag your toe. The trailing toe does not leave contact with the ground. Flying is when a pitcher's trailing toe leaves contact with the ground....hence the two examples shown. Flying is a violation of the so-called leaping rule. The contrasting style to leaping pitcher is a step style pitcher. A step pitcher does not leap from the rubber. They step and release. It is an old style. Sling-shot pitchers step. There are not too many of them left around. It is a style used by most young pitchers before they learn to leap. Also the larger the pitcher...the more likely they are to step.

 

Here is a good article to explain the terminology.

 

http://www.pitchsoftball.com/Page5.html

[swingaway]

Heel off the ground means nothing as my daughter only has her toe in contact with the ground after pushing off. That is what she has been taught. Second, the drag coincides with the downward motion of the arm to the release point, so as I noted before, we would have to see it in person or on video.

 

Look at her hand , she has a curled index finger, the rise ball grip. Look at her body. she is clearly throwing her rise. Her weight is on her back foot, she isnt dragging any longer, she is pushing and she is pushing at 40 , not 43'. I dont know it seems clear to me, but it is not called as she only does this when she throws her rise ball. She doesnt do it every pitch.