OW

[Guest]

Walkenvol,

At one time coaches voted on officials and the assigning officer used them as a guide for assigning officials to the region tournaments. That changed a couple of years ago and the TSSAA picked the Region officials along with input from the assigning officer. This was due to the fact that the DII state tournament and the DI region tournament were on the same weekend. You can see the problem, DI coaches wanted the "best refs" for their tournament and DII coaches wanted the same for their State Tournament. I'm not sure how it is exactly done in every region now, since DI and DII are at UTC Arena but I've not heard of coaches poll in several years, but I could be wrong. If they have it, I've never seen the results and I probably wouldn't want to. It's my understanding that the TSSAA and the local assigning officer still make the final decision on Region officials.

 

xbody

[Edited by xbody on 8-13-02 3:14P]

 

[clintabbott]

I have made lots more people mad about my vote for OW than my calls in a certain match. I contend that all officials will vote for the person that think is the most qualified. I have worked with the Simpson officials_ Jim and Paul-. They are both very good officials. I have officiated for their brothers and their brother-in law and they have not always agreed with my calls, but they are still my friends and I am proud to call them my friends. I know of no official that would vote for someone, because of their kinfolks.

[walkenvol]

xbody,

 

I stand corrected on the change since the DI / DII split. I stand firm on my stance that many knowledgable wrestling people from Chattanooga have the perception that many of the Nashville officials are biased towards Father Ryan and MBA wrestlers due to their relationships with the Simpson Connection. There are coaches that will no longer go there to wrestle. Whether this perception is valid or not, many people share it. Can you explain away the 2001 call that has been reference earlier as anything else? If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might just be a duck.

[takedown42]

Walkenvol,

You are getting to sound like a daddy who's son must have been beating by one of the Simpson kids. Are you crying sour grapes? If so, why? What have they done to you?

You say that you know coaches who refuse to go back to the Ryan Inv. so tell us who they are. I will say that where ever you go to wrestle out of town there is a different style of officiating. We go to Alabama and they call different than the Tenn officials. So are the Alabama officials cheating or calling in favor of the Alabama kids? I don't think so. So it sounds to me that you are making a blanket statement about everyone opinion from Chattanooga about the Nashville officials. I would bet that if you asked the Nashville schools what they think about our Chattanooga officials they would say they aren't as good as their officials in Nashville. They might even say our officials are biased.

[bobmarley]

takedown42

Maybe have hit upon something here. It has been difficult to follow most of the walkenvol claim. Is it one match that has him in an uproar? McCallie now goes to the Father Ryan Invitation now because there are Chattanoga refs? Who has control of refs? McCallie?

Let's go back to discussing OW's.

[takedown42]

Good post BobMarley,

I don't think that Gordon Connell of McCallie tells the people of Ryan how to run their tournament as I don't think that Pat Simpson of Ryan tells the McCallie people how to run their Invitational. I think Walkenvol need not throw stones to far because they might break his own Blue Tornado glass home. While our team was at the McCallie tourn this year there seemed to be some problems with the weigh-in procedures this year on Sat. morning with the local kids. I remember quite vividly some out of town teams claiming not to return if this is how they do business. I am not sure what exactly happened but the buzz around the tournament didn't shed good light on the situation what ever it was. Maybe Walkenvol can tell us what happened to cause those coaches to threaten to not return next year.

[luchador]

Walkenvol,

I can't say that I have seen any Chattanooga refs at the Father Ryan Invitational, yet McCallie still comes back. It sounds as if your claim is unfounded. As to the officiating in different areas, takedown42 hit the nail on the head. Different refs in different areas interpret and apply the rules in different ways. Walkenvol, do the Bethlehem, PA refs officiate the same way as the Chattanooga refs? The ref you spoke of applied a rule that has been in the books for 5 years. At the first sight of blood, regardless of the position of the athletes, the match is to be stopped immediately without hesitation. Ask Coach Connell for a copy of the rule book if you don't believe it is in there. As a coach, I wouldn't like it if my kid was on top, but it has happened. What I do know is that the rule is there to protect the long term health of all of the athletes. Heaven forbid a ref allowing a situation to continue and a blood-borne pathogen should infect your son or any other athlete.

[Edited by luchador on 8-13-02 10:16P]

 

[cbg]

Hey Vol,

 

If you are truly a Vol fan then you of all people should know that you don't cry about a call that goes against you. The true studs overcome a bad call and continue to dominate the match. Every time a coach or parent begins to cry about the officials and bad calls their team begins to do the same thing. 99.9% of the time these actions result in the team or individual tanking it and hitting bottom. You sound like a Vandy fan.

[walkenvol]

Luchador,

 

I stand behind my statements. Ken Mara, a longtime Chattanooga official who also has called the NCAA finals the last several years was brought in to officiate the Father Ryan tourny last year as a condition to McCallie attending. Red Bank coach Richard Brown refused to bring his team back last year because of the officiating. Ask him. I'm familiar with the blood rule. The problem is there was no blood. No blood was cleaned from either wrestler or the mat. Ask Coach Simpson, Coach Connell and both officials if you don't believe me. Certainly, if there was blood, the rules are clear that the match would be stopped reguardless of the situation. As an official yourself, surely you would agree that any official worthy of being selected to officiate a state tournament would be positive that there was blood before you stopped the match to let the defending state champion off his back. He had been on his back for almost 1 minute, so it wasn't something that required a fast decision by the official. You can call it sour grapes if you like, but the officials changed who won the state championship that year in DII 112 lbs whether it was an honest mistake as you would contend or was it a case of some Nashville officials being biased towards FR and MBA as many people in Chattanooga think. As for me, I don't know. Water under the bridge. But, it only adds fuel to the fire that some Nashville officials are viewed as biased.

 

How does this relate to OW? Would Patrick been OW if he had finished 3rd as a Junior instead of being a 3 time champion? Maybe if the award is viewed on tournament results only, maybe not if it is more of a career award.

 

Concerning the officiating at Bethlehem, it is different, but consistant. They don't call stalling as much as TN officials and they don't force wrestlers to the center of the mat IMHO. Personally, I like the TN style of officiating better because they tend to award the aggressor. But again, it was the same for everybody.

 

Again, the Simpson boys appear to be fine young men and I wish them the best. My point is about a small number of officials, not the wrestlers.

 

Posted by luchador:

Walkenvol,

I can't say that I have seen any Chattanooga refs at the Father Ryan Invitational, yet McCallie still comes back. It sounds as if your claim is unfounded. As to the officiating in different areas, takedown42 hit the nail on the head. Different refs in different areas interpret and apply the rules in different ways. Walkenvol, do the Bethlehem, PA refs officiate the same way as the Chattanooga refs? The ref you spoke of applied a rule that has been in the books for 5 years. At the first sight of blood, regardless of the position of the athletes, the match is to be stopped immediately without hesitation. Ask Coach Connell for a copy of the rule book if you don't believe it is in there. As a coach, I wouldn't like it if my kid was on top, but it has happened. What I do know is that the rule is there to protect the long term health of all of the athletes. Heaven forbid a ref allowing a situation to continue and a blood-borne pathogen should infect your son or any other athlete.

[Edited by luchador on 8-13-02 10:16P]

[walkenvol]

takedown42,

 

The dispute was concerning Kyle James of Soddy, not a McCallie wrestler. Coach Henry and the officials conducting the weigh-ins would be the ones to ask what happened and why some coaches were unhappy concerning Kyle's weigh-in.

 

Posted by takedown42:

Good post BobMarley,

I don't think that Gordon Connell of McCallie tells the people of Ryan how to run their tournament as I don't think that Pat Simpson of Ryan tells the McCallie people how to run their Invitational. I think Walkenvol need not throw stones to far because they might break his own Blue Tornado glass home. While our team was at the McCallie tourn this year there seemed to be some problems with the weigh-in procedures this year on Sat. morning with the local kids. I remember quite vividly some out of town teams claiming not to return if this is how they do business. I am not sure what exactly happened but the buzz around the tournament didn't shed good light on the situation what ever it was. Maybe Walkenvol can tell us what happened to cause those coaches to threaten to not return next year.

[bobmarley]

Didn't Ken Mara move to Nashville?

 

I stand behind my statements. Ken Mara, a longtime Chattanooga official who also has called the NCAA finals the last several years was brought in to officiate the Father Ryan tourny last year as a condition to McCallie attending. Red Bank coach Richard Brown refused to bring his team back last year because of the officiating. Ask him. I'm familiar with the blood rule. The problem is there was no blood. No blood was cleaned from either wrestler or the mat. Ask Coach Simpson, Coach Connell and both officials if you don't believe me. Certainly, if there was blood, the rules are clear that the match would be stopped reguardless of the situation. As an official yourself, surely you would agree that any official worthy of being selected to officiate a state tournament would be positive that there was blood before you stopped the match to let the defending state champion off his back. He had been on his back for almost 1 minute, so it wasn't something that required a fast decision by the official. You can call it sour grapes if you like, but the officials changed who won the state championship that year in DII 112 lbs whether it was an honest mistake as you would contend or was it a case of some Nashville officials being biased towards FR and MBA as many people in Chattanooga think. As for me, I don't know. Water under the bridge. But, it only adds fuel to the fire that some Nashville officials are viewed as biased.

 

How does this relate to OW? Would Patrick been OW if he had finished 3rd as a Junior instead of being a 3 time champion? Maybe if the award is viewed on tournament results only, maybe not if it is more of a career award.

 

Concerning the officiating at Bethlehem, it is different, but consistant. They don't call stalling as much as TN officials and they don't force wrestlers to the center of the mat IMHO. Personally, I like the TN style of officiating better because they tend to award the aggressor. But again, it was the same for everybody.

 

Again, the Simpson boys appear to be fine young men and I wish them the best. My point is about a small number of officials, not the wrestlers.

 

Posted by luchador:

Walkenvol,

I can't say that I have seen any Chattanooga refs at the Father Ryan Invitational, yet McCallie still comes back. It sounds as if your claim is unfounded. As to the officiating in different areas, takedown42 hit the nail on the head. Different refs in different areas interpret and apply the rules in different ways. Walkenvol, do the Bethlehem, PA refs officiate the same way as the Chattanooga refs? The ref you spoke of applied a rule that has been in the books for 5 years. At the first sight of blood, regardless of the position of the athletes, the match is to be stopped immediately without hesitation. Ask Coach Connell for a copy of the rule book if you don't believe it is in there. As a coach, I wouldn't like it if my kid was on top, but it has happened. What I do know is that the rule is there to protect the long term health of all of the athletes. Heaven forbid a ref allowing a situation to continue and a blood-borne pathogen should infect your son or any other athlete.

[Edited by luchador on 8-13-02 10:16P]

[bobmarley]

The reply should have only read:

Didn't Ken Mara move to Nashville?

Isn't that why he was at the Father Ryan Invitational?