OW

[toughest6]

Any opinions on who has a chance of winning OW at the state tournament this year?-D1 or D2

[CoachBruce]

Posted by toughest6:

Any opinions on who has a chance of winning OW at the state tournament this year?-D1 or D2

 

well, D2's already engraved: Raymond Dunning, Father Ryan.

 

D1: Smart money's on either Daniel Crosby, or Quinn Gibson. let the speculation begin.

 

Why are we talking about this now? now's more the time to talk Teams.

[coulibaly]

Look for John Ballard of Brentwood Academy to go undefeated, win state and win OW this next year. He was 3rd string for BA in the 160lb weight class and he bench presses almost 200 lbs. If the two people in front of him get hurt and "Barnold" can avoid getting ringworm he should be a force to be reckoned with. Austin Holland has also bulked up to 110 lbs over the summer and he's all muscle. He placed 6th in the 103 lb class last year for BA and he could contend for 5th this year. Look out for Ballard and Holland.

[RyanRowdy]

Thanks for that useless dribble.

[walkenvol]

Unfortunately, I think your right on Dunning in DII. Don't take me wrong, he's an outstanding wrestler and may well prove himself the most outstanding at the state tourny next year. It just seems that in DII, the Simpson connection is assured of this award even if someone else does a better job in a particular tournament. I was glad to see Yost get it in DI last year based on the tournament results only. Kellar would have certainly got it if it were based on a carear. Most of the DII champions pinned their way into the finals. Simpson beat a sophmore on points in his finals last year. His younger brother might have had a more impressive tournament based on his final's match. Leen beat Silberman, either one of which would have dominated the DI tourny. Manley, a somphmore, dominated a 3 time finalist in Berry. Dunning had a 1st period pin althouth it was against a freshman. Simpson had an outstanding carear, but did he truthfully have the best state tournament?

[CoachBruce]

see, I thought Keller should STILL have been OW for that very same reason.

 

if I'm not Terribly mistaken, Yost was in trouble (although very briefly) in one prelim match, I think 2nd round. like I said, it was only for a moment, but it was enough to attract attention, and was therefore noticable.

 

Keller, on the other hand, Dominated. I don't believe he gave up a point (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Keller also had Much better competition in the finals.

 

and "lifetime achievement award" or not....I think being a 4-time champ should count for something.

[walkenvol]

There are clearly two different ways of looking at a tournament OW award.

 

On the TSSAA web page you can view last year's tournament brackets. For some reason, neither Yost's or Keller's semifinal match is posted.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Yost pinned in the semis. His results were rd 32 - pin 3:21, rd 16 - pin 1:49, quarters - pin 1:05, semis - pin ?, finals - pin 1:30.

 

I have a video of the February 15th channel 9 news where they interviewed Keller after his semis match. He states that things weren't going as he planned because he tech falled in his last 2 matches. His results were rd 32 - pin 0:59, rd 16 - pin 4:58, quarters - TF 17-2, semis - TF ?, finals - TF 17-2.

 

Both dominated the tournament and certainly the quality of the competition should weigh heavily in the decision. I can't offer an opinion as to who had the tougher weight class although typically the best wrestlers align themselves into different weight classes. Assuming that their competition was comparable, we would award 5 pins over 2 pins and 3 tech falls. I recall Keller winning the state tourny OW as a freshman when he beat a defending champion in the finals. I'm sure there were other multiple year winners that year with impressive carear records that would have been more deserving based on the way you view the award.

 

Makes for interesting discussion. How many days until the season starts

[cbg]

The problem you have with the OW award is that most of the time the people that are selecting the individual for the award do not have any clear criteria to use.

1. Do you give the award to the person that is truly the best wrestler but may not have pinned all of his competition because someone decided to stall and just not get pinned? This does happen, even in the state finals.

2. Should the award be given to the wrestler that has had the best career? Example: 3X State Champion and undefeated his senior season

 

3. The lowest seeded wrestler or a no name that steps up at the state tournament and wins a championship. With the split causing the competition in both divisions to become weaker it is much more difficult for this to happen. Most of the good wrestlers today only have 1 difficult match if any at the state tournament.

 

Who votes on the outsdtanding wrestler award? It would be difficult for a coach that is going for the team championship to even watch most of the better wrestler and the same for the officials that are working the tournament.

[Edited by cbg on 8-12-02 10:44A]

[Edited by cbg on 8-12-02 12:31P]

 

[Guest]

The officials working the tournament are the ones who vote for OW. They meet before the finals with Ronnie Carter to receive their match assignments and they discuss possible candidates for OW. Criteria used in the past are things such as route to the finals,ie how many pins and even how quick, opponents defeated,ie did he beat a former state champ in the round of sixteen and the quarters to get here? and basically how dominate of a TOURNAMENT have they had?

 

Just a little information for you guys to argue about.

 

xbody

[cbg]

xbody,

 

Are you saying that there is no written criteria to determine the OW, if so then what people have said for years is true: It is a subjective popularity contest. Maybe it's just me but I don't see how the officials working the tournament would have the time to watch all of the wrestlers so that they could vote on the OW.

[Guest]

I wouldn't call it a popularity contest by any means. One example was Kellar's freshman year. I wouldn't say that he very well known when he was a freshman. He defeated several place winners on his way to the finals and then in the finals he beat a two time defending state champ, a senior going for his third state title. He earned the OW title with his performance in THAT tournament. Sure, you have to look at the "studs", but I can assure you that they are looking at anyone who is having a great tournament. You are correct in saying that there are no written guidelines. It's funny to read the posts that suggested that the Nashville ref's had some kind of conspiracy against Bradley and Kellar this past year. That is simply a false statement. The ref's aren't playing favorites on the mat or in the awarding of the OW for the tournament. The refs don't get to see every single match but they do look over all of the brackets and they do discuss each individual weight class before the finals begin.

 

xbody

[takedown42]

Walkenval,

I think you may have submitted some false information on your last post about the Simpson kid who was OW at last years state. After reading your post I thought you were wrong so I looked up his bracket on the TSSAA web site. If I read it correctly it said he pinned all four opponents including one of your McCallie kids in the finals. His four matches were pin in 1:32, pin in 2:35, pin in 1:47 and a pin in the finals in 3:45. I would have to say he did have an outstanding tournament. I also thought Fletcher Thompson from Baylor had an outstanding tournament. He had two first period pins, a decision over a staller from Ryan and major decision over the MBA kid who is not to shaby.

I personally think the officials have the best interest in heart when they choice a outstanding wrestler.

Posted by walkenvol:

Unfortunately, I think your right on Dunning in DII. Don't take me wrong, he's an outstanding wrestler and may well prove himself the most outstanding at the state tourny next year. It just seems that in DII, the Simpson connection is assured of this award even if someone else does a better job in a particular tournament. I was glad to see Yost get it in DI last year based on the tournament results only. Kellar would have certainly got it if it were based on a carear. Most of the DII champions pinned their way into the finals. Simpson beat a sophmore on points in his finals last year. His younger brother might have had a more impressive tournament based on his final's match. Leen beat Silberman, either one of which would have dominated the DI tourny. Manley, a somphmore, dominated a 3 time finalist in Berry. Dunning had a 1st period pin althouth it was against a freshman. Simpson had an outstanding carear, but did he truthfully have the best state tournament?