Refrees?

[MVM]

I'll take at stab at that & my answer is simple..I don't there's been that much difference.

 

As a rule crowd control is much much better now than it ever was. Much more noticible presence of law enforcement & school SRO's. And no matter how heated games have been and how much yelling there was at the refs, almost all of the crowds I've seen the last few years disperse quietly and orderly.

 

There will always be an isolated incident somewhere of an unruly fan like the head butting incident, but I think those episodes are few and far between. I'm sure some old timers probably have stories of being escorted out of gymnasiums under heavy security and a few probably have had vandilism occur to the vehicles among other things in the previous decades.

 

Believe it or not I think coaches are far more respectful now. They've pretty much been muzzled by the coaches box & the effects a technical foul brings to them. That wasn't the case in the good old days. Coaches had more freedom on the sidelines and didn't hold back their anger at a bad call. Refs definitely have the upper hand now.

 

Players ? A wash there as well. Different generation of players, different generation of officials. I think they "get"

each other. Doesn't mean they'll agree on all the calls but how they react I think goes back to their coaches

and their parents. That was true 40 years ago as well.

 

 

Tigerman, Thank You for the answers, But I would respectfully disagree. I think Crowds are worse today, Players are worse today, but coaches are better or the same. In the sport I ref I work Rec leagues all the way to premier games and adults, so I run the whole gambit...And this is what I see. Every year we get a new crop in of young refs for our rec league (u-8 to u-12). These refs have had class time and have taken a test to make sure they have a general knowledge of the rules and work with older refs ( yes I'm calling myself old /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> ). By the end of the season we lose half to three quarters of those refs. When you ask them why? It's because they do not like being yelled at.

 

My point is this...To be a good or great ref takes time and experience. The same goes for players and coaches as well. But when in today's society we allow bad behavior from the crowd, coaches, and players It hurts the game for everyone. I wonder How many Good refs or potential good refs have we lost because of bad behavior.

 

I know this doesn't help us/you today, but the next time you see a young ref doing a lower level game...cut him some slack, Heck tell him that he did a good job if he did....That ref might be doing your grandkids HS varsity games in the future.

[MVM]

It has been tinkered with a little in a few associations. The problem is closed dates, geographic location of the crew and the game and the strength of the individuals in the crew.

 

I like the idea of putting officials in PODS. Four or five officials in the POD. One official in the POD is the crew chief. Rotate the officials in the POD allowing each to get thier floor time. The officials that do not work the varsity game will work the JV game and also run the clock in the varsity contests. The POD concept wold also require that the crew chief send evaluations to the supervisor/assignor after each contest critiqing the way the game was officiated and giving feedback on each member of his/her POD.

 

Maybe the crew cheif could be compensated by the state office for the extra work required by them.

 

My two cents.

 

Melton I do like the ideal of the Pod.

[Pantherbert]

Wow. Where to even start. Make officials more accountable, Grade them fairly and objectively, reward the good ones. You need to skip officiating and go all the way to being a supervisor!! We don?€™t get paid that much, the supervisors really don?€™t get paid that much so who is going to do all this evaluating??? This is not a full time job folks!! Maybe if you paid $150 bucks a game for a ticket it could be and you would get the dedication that you want out of it!!

 

The coaches know the game better than anybody?€¦.. Really??? Come on?€¦?€¦

 

I?€™m sorry I have to stick to my guns. I was one of the most belligerent people to officials prior to becoming one. With the experience I now have, I know how to be a better fan, parent, coach and just person in general.

 

It applies everywhere. Don?€™t gripe at your server at a restaurant until you have been one. Don?€™t get mad at your wife till you have done the laundry yourself. Don?€™t get mad at your kid?€™s teacher till you have taught yourself. When you get the experience you can make an educated decision as to whether the people you are criticizing are doing a good job or a bad job. And odds are after being in their shoes you will respond in a more respectful manner.

 

Or you could just be an idiot and none of this experience will matter. You will get on a message board and dog out the very people you once were?€¦.

 

I still think every fan should be required to take some kind of rules course prior to being admitted to a gym!! Sort of like a drivers license test! Take the course, pass the test you get to come to a game. At least then they will have an understanding of the rules?€¦..

 

One time fee of $150 for the course and then you just pay $3 bucks to get in! What a deal?€¦. I?€™ll teach?€¦.

 

 

I guess I can't get mad at women. I'm not prepared to go down that road.

[PressureD]

Ah you caught me! Oh no I like opinions, I tend to get them everyday! However, I don't like the opinions from officials talking about other officials!!! I'm sorry, I guess I'm old school in thinking.. There are somethings we just keep to ourselves......

 

So does that work in other areas of life? Should teachers not say anything about those that are not good teachers? Should doctors not say anything about those that are not good doctors? Why can't officials hold other officials accountable? I understand that a lot of that should be handled behind closed doors, but someone needs to hold officials accountable and I see no better people to do that than fellow officials. I am not saying that I need to hold basketball officials accountable, because I am not one. However, the older, wiser basketball officials should hold the younger, green officials accountable. Again, just an opinion. Probably wrong again.

[Pantherbert]

So does that work in other areas of life? Should teachers not say anything about those that are not good teachers? Should doctors not say anything about those that are not good doctors? Why can't officials hold other officials accountable? I understand that a lot of that should be handled behind closed doors, but someone needs to hold officials accountable and I see no better people to do that than fellow officials. I am not saying that I need to hold basketball officials accountable, because I am not one. However, the older, wiser basketball officials should hold the younger, green officials accountable. Again, just an opinion. Probably wrong again.

 

 

 

I think it's ok but if an official, teacher, doctor, etc is going to do so it must always be done tactfully.

[PressureD]

I think it's ok but if an official, teacher, doctor, etc is going to do so it must always be done tactfully.

 

I can agree with that. I hope that I have not come off as one that believes that you have to belittle or demean someone to hold them accountable. If I have, I apologize as that is not what I believe at all.

[downtown247]

I think it's ok but if an official, teacher, doctor, etc is going to do so it must always be done tactfully.

 

 

Being tactful is the wrong approach. If someone is an idiot it is vitally important that they be told exactly that. If we always worry about being politically correct then people still feel good about being an the idiot that drives the rest of us nuts.

[blankguy]

Being tactful is the wrong approach. If someone is an idiot it is vitally important that they be told exactly that. If we always worry about being politically correct then people still feel good about being an the idiot that drives the rest of us nuts.

 

Well obviously you guys aren't managers...... It's not like there is a plethora or officials signing up to work games.....

[Pantherbert]

Being tactful is the wrong approach. If someone is an idiot it is vitally important that they be told exactly that. If we always worry about being politically correct then people still feel good about being an the idiot that drives the rest of us nuts.

 

 

Being tactful and being politically correct are not the same thing. Having tact is showing genuine class and respect while calling someone on their errors. Being politically correct is hollow wording presented out of fear in order to stay out of trouble in case someone does like what they're told.

 

 

 

It'll work more than it won't. At least then if it doesn't the precedent has been set that you have been a patient person and shown your concern/opinion sincerely and respectfully. Then you can most certainly get you dander up if need be. People aren't apt to listen to someone just because they huff and puff the loudest.

[THEDEFENDER]

I've sat here for several days and read all the posts and can see the points of both sides. While I do feel officials need to be held accountable, I don't know if this is the exact forum where it needs to be done. Criticize officials all you want, but there is a right place and time...during the game, on a message board or wherever...if you're a fan. I can also see the side of the official who is upset that a fellow official, albeit a football official is calling out basketball officials on a message board. Standing on the outside looking in, with a child who is a three-sport athlete, I believe the basketball officials have a harder job than any other sport. I can see and understand points concerning some officials who don't need to be working for whatever reasons...speed of the game, fitness level, whatever and I agree with all those points. But I just don't see the point in a fellow official calling out other officials, whatever their respective sports. In my career field, we are held accountable by the public, we are continually called out by people we deal with...but...we never sell each other out, minus breaking the law, no matter what we think about someone's ability. Had the poster calling officials out never mentioned being an official, would we be having these confrontations? I think not. Just my humble opinion. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> /ph34r.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ph34r:" border="0" alt="ph34r.gif" />

[Pantherbert]

I've sat here for several days and read all the posts and can see the points of both sides. While I do feel officials need to be held accountable, I don't know if this is the exact forum where it needs to be done. Criticize officials all you want, but there is a right place and time...during the game, on a message board or wherever...if you're a fan. I can also see the side of the official who is upset that a fellow official, albeit a football official is calling out basketball officials on a message board. Standing on the outside looking in, with a child who is a three-sport athlete, I believe the basketball officials have a harder job than any other sport. I can see and understand points concerning some officials who don't need to be working for whatever reasons...speed of the game, fitness level, whatever and I agree with all those points. But I just don't see the point in a fellow official calling out other officials, whatever their respective sports. In my career field, we are held accountable by the public, we are continually called out by people we deal with...but...we never sell each other out, minus breaking the law, no matter what we think about someone's ability. Had the poster calling officials out never mentioned being an official, would we be having these confrontations? I think not. Just my humble opinion. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> /ph34r.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ph34r:" border="0" alt="ph34r.gif" />

 

 

And I agree with the majority of that.

 

Only hang-up is if the gentleman doesn't identify himself as an official then all he'll get is the " Don't complain until you've done it " line. While I believe that to be a valid argument, it's the only response a fan will ever get and we wouldn't have gotten very far in this thread. It wouldn't be any different than having a coach point out things he/she sees wrong with what some coaches do. You're not calling out people, teams, or fans; just things that you think are wrong. However, as I stated earlier,IF you're going to do that and identify yourself as a coach, official, teacher, or whatever......you must be prepared to take the high road at all times......even if other posters won't. I'm not even attempting to take up anybody's side of the argument, I only believe that a person should be allowed to state their opinion and defend it if necessary.

[PressureD]

Just let it be noted that I do not think that all officials do a bad job. I was at the McMinn Central girls game tonight and thought the officials at that game did an outstanding job. Did they miss a call or two, probably, but this is basketball and most of the calls are judgment calls. Overall, great job by those three men tonight. Glad to see three good officials working an important game like that.