Refrees?

[luv2ref]

Just let it be noted that I do not think that all officials do a bad job. I was at the McMinn Central girls game tonight and thought the officials at that game did an outstanding job. Did they miss a call or two, probably, but this is basketball and most of the calls are judgment calls. Overall, great job by those three men tonight. Glad to see three good officials working an important game like that.

 

I, too, have officiated a long time and seen lots of officiating; but, I really refuse to publicly call out another official. I talk to people who have officiated or have a lot experience with officials about officiating. I talk to coaches about the demeanor of officials NOT about the job they do. We ALL have bad games occassionally. Officiating basketball is different from officiating football. Officiating football is different from officiating baseball. Officiating baseball is different from officiating soccer; and the list goes on and on. I don't know how long its been since you officiated basketball, but the game is ever changing. The players change every year. They get better. They are faster, quicker, stronger, and smarter. What I saw two years ago is not the same that I see today. When the three pointer first came into play, I believe it was a way to get the smaller player back into the game, because we were becoming dominated by big men. But, now the big men can shoot the three as well as the smaller players, so we are sort of right back where we started. PLAYERS CHANGE; so the game you officiated in November is not the same game you officiated in February. There is absolutely no way that I talk with just anyone about a job that my fellow football official did. I don't want them talking about me, so I don't talk about them. If there is a problem with their officiating, their supervisor is there to address it. I can't believe that we think that the TSSAA is just letting all of these 'terrible officials' go unsupervised. If we do, maybe it helps explain why the behavioral problems exist in our society; all of our educators have no managerial or supervisory ablilities and are letting our students run wild. Just like in other vocations or careers, whichever you choose to call it, we do have some people who need more work in officiating; but, I don't believe we have people who intentionally go out and sabotage games. I love teaching officials and sometimes think I do that better than officiate; but, I still refuse to publicly say that any particular official was terrible. Its hard enough coming from fans; but, it really makes me wonder what my partner and the coach are talking about if I'm working with an official who talks about the call I just made; constructive or not. And by the way, if I ever found out that an official sold me or my partner out, I will turn in every game assigned with that official, even if means not getting a schedule.

[gledbetter]

Being an ex-tssaa referee, someone saying you stink, does deserve a "T" and depending on how it was done, maybe an ejection.

 

How would you feel if someone came up to you at work and said "YOU STINK!"....no adult or child deserves to call a referee any name because they don't agree with a call...

 

One of the reasons I got out of refereeing was the poor sportsmanship...every year seemed to get worse and worse. I didn't see that it was getting any better.

 

Referee's have tremendous respect for what they do.

[Pantherbert]

I, too, have officiated a long time and seen lots of officiating; but, I really refuse to publicly call out another official. I talk to people who have officiated or have a lot experience with officials about officiating. I talk to coaches about the demeanor of officials NOT about the job they do. We ALL have bad games occassionally. Officiating basketball is different from officiating football. Officiating football is different from officiating baseball. Officiating baseball is different from officiating soccer; and the list goes on and on. I don't know how long its been since you officiated basketball, but the game is ever changing. The players change every year. They get better. They are faster, quicker, stronger, and smarter. What I saw two years ago is not the same that I see today. When the three pointer first came into play, I believe it was a way to get the smaller player back into the game, because we were becoming dominated by big men. But, now the big men can shoot the three as well as the smaller players, so we are sort of right back where we started. PLAYERS CHANGE; so the game you officiated in November is not the same game you officiated in February. There is absolutely no way that I talk with just anyone about a job that my fellow football official did. I don't want them talking about me, so I don't talk about them. If there is a problem with their officiating, their supervisor is there to address it. I can't believe that we think that the TSSAA is just letting all of these 'terrible officials' go unsupervised. If we do, maybe it helps explain why the behavioral problems exist in our society; all of our educators have no managerial or supervisory ablilities and are letting our students run wild. Just like in other vocations or careers, whichever you choose to call it, we do have some people who need more work in officiating; but, I don't believe we have people who intentionally go out and sabotage games. I love teaching officials and sometimes think I do that better than officiate; but, I still refuse to publicly say that any particular official was terrible. Its hard enough coming from fans; but, it really makes me wonder what my partner and the coach are talking about if I'm working with an official who talks about the call I just made; constructive or not. And by the way, if I ever found out that an official sold me or my partner out, I will turn in every game assigned with that official, even if means not getting a schedule.

 

 

and I agree in as much as it's wrong to call someone out but that has not transpired in this thread. What happened was an official came on here and said that certain types of officials should probably hang it up. No names were mentioned. No one thrown under the bus.

[goo goo cluster]

Reffin, I like the idea of making fans pass a rules test to be admitted. At least they should have to pass one before yelling about the rules. I will be the first to admit that I don't know all the rules of basketball and I even coach the sport. I do know the most basic rules and when those are the ones that officials miss, I get upset. However, as you have pointed out, when you are an official, of any sport, it makes you appreciate the profession a little more. Now that does not mean that I can't have the opinion that some need to find another hobby. But I agree with the rules test to be admitted to the game. That was pretty funny. See it all the time in football, especially in the youth leagues. Go out on a Saturday afternoon and listen to all the fans yelling "horse collar" or "the defense can jump offsides as long as they get back before the snap." I understand what you are saying. Made me laugh. Good idea.

 

 

 

'Horse Collar'.... maybe the fans are smarter than given credit. The 'horse collar' tackle will now be illegal in high school next year. They have just become more knowledgable about the rules and have no idea... still can't help them with the ignorance to offsides though!

[PressureD]

'Horse Collar'.... maybe the fans are smarter than given credit. The 'horse collar' tackle will now be illegal in high school next year. They have just become more knowledgable about the rules and have no idea... still can't help them with the ignorance to offsides though!

 

You are right about the horse collar being illegal in high school, starting this upcoming season. What I was saying is that we had coaches yelling it last year, when it was not illegal in high school. I wish the rules gurus would get together and make high school rules match the college rules so that those who watch Saturday football would be a little bit more knowledgeable about the high school rules. It would also make the transition from high school officiating to collegiate officiating a little easier.

[Reffin]

You are right about the horse collar being illegal in high school, starting this upcoming season. What I was saying is that we had coaches yelling it last year, when it was not illegal in high school. I wish the rules gurus would get together and make high school rules match the college rules so that those who watch Saturday football would be a little bit more knowledgeable about the high school rules. It would also make the transition from high school officiating to collegiate officiating a little easier.

 

Oh please!!! You think the "rules guru's" are going to do anything to make it easier!! This goes back to another post but i think we should have a shot clock and standardize, as much as possible, the college game with the highschool game. You know how hard it is to count ten seconds on Friday night in high school game and turn around and NOT count it on Saturday in a college gym???

 

I agree.... Make it more simple. Won't happen cause those shot clock systems are a little pricy and you would need someone at the table smart enough to hit a button when a ball hits the rim..... We can all dream!!!!

[PressureD]

Oh please!!! You think the "rules guru's" are going to do anything to make it easier!! This goes back to another post but i think we should have a shot clock and standardize, as much as possible, the college game with the highschool game. You know how hard it is to count ten seconds on Friday night in high school game and turn around and NOT count it on Saturday in a college gym???

 

I agree.... Make it more simple. Won't happen cause those shot clock systems are a little pricy and you would need someone at the table smart enough to hit a button when a ball hits the rim..... We can all dream!!!!

 

Do you mean not count ten seconds for the women's game? The men still have 10 seconds in college, correct? I am being serious, not trying to sound stupid. Do the men still have that in college? And I agree, they are not going to make it easier, just wishing they would. I am torn on the idea of a shot clock. I think the shot clock could be a good thing, but on the other hand, the under manned teams that have to slow the game down would be at a disadvantage with a shot clock. So I am up in the air on that one. I see both pros and cons, I guess.

[Reffin]

Do you mean not count ten seconds for the women's game? The men still have 10 seconds in college, correct? I am being serious, not trying to sound stupid. Do the men still have that in college? And I agree, they are not going to make it easier, just wishing they would. I am torn on the idea of a shot clock. I think the shot clock could be a good thing, but on the other hand, the under manned teams that have to slow the game down would be at a disadvantage with a shot clock. So I am up in the air on that one. I see both pros and cons, I guess.

 

Yes Men's has a 10 second backcourt violation and women's does not. Women's has a 30 second shot clock and men's has a 35 second shot clock. Riddle me that batman?? I don't get it....

 

With the style of play today i would say 99% of the trips up and down the floor are less than 35 seconds. When you get to the end of the game you will see some more slow down but not a lot. It's just not part of the game anymore.

 

I just think it would help keep the game going when you run in to these games where a team just stands there at the end of the game. I can remember a game back in the early 90's where Lenoir City and Campbell County were in the region or sub-state and Lenoir City just stood there all night. Maybe it wasn't Lenoir City??? Regardless it happened and I know Campbell County was one of the teams. They completely off set the high powered offence that CC had by not giving them the ball all night. You can say that is good coaching for being scared to death of your opponent.

 

I don't know.. It would be interesting to see how it worked out....

[Pantherbert]

Yes Men's has a 10 second backcourt violation and women's does not. Women's has a 30 second shot clock and men's has a 35 second shot clock. Riddle me that batman?? I don't get it....

 

With the style of play today i would say 99% of the trips up and down the floor are less than 35 seconds. When you get to the end of the game you will see some more slow down but not a lot. It's just not part of the game anymore.

 

I just think it would help keep the game going when you run in to these games where a team just stands there at the end of the game. I can remember a game back in the early 90's where Lenoir City and Campbell County were in the region or sub-state and Lenoir City just stood there all night. Maybe it wasn't Lenoir City??? Regardless it happened and I know Campbell County was one of the teams. They completely off set the high powered offence that CC had by not giving them the ball all night. You can say that is good coaching for being scared to death of your opponent.

 

I don't know.. It would be interesting to see how it worked out....

 

 

In regards to a shot clock, you hit the nail on the head a few posts back. Finding someone to work it and work it properly would be a logistical nightmare.

 

 

I would ask this about that game you saw between Lenoir City and Campbell County. I'll agree that just holding the ball is usually " playing scared " but if CC just sat back in a zone then it says to me their defense isn't good enough to challenge. That's playing "scared" defensively. It says I'm not coming out because I might get carved up. I still contend that if a team's only recourse is to hold the ball then they probably don't have the ability to hold on to the ball if pressed.

[Reffin]

In regards to a shot clock, you hit the nail on the head a few posts back. Finding someone to work it and work it properly would be a logistical nightmare.

 

 

I would ask this about that game you saw between Lenoir City and Campbell County. I'll agree that just holding the ball is usually " playing scared " but if CC just sat back in a zone then it says to me their defense isn't good enough to challenge. That's playing "scared" defensively. It says I'm not coming out because I might get carved up. I still contend that if a team's only recourse is to hold the ball then they probably don't have the ability to hold on to the ball if pressed.

 

Ya i agree. That game went back to bad coaching on the part of CC. Come out and pressure. Use the 5 second count if nothing else!!! I don't understand why some coaches combat the "freeze" with a stand there for 8 minutes D???? Oh well!!

 

Ya the shot clock would be great but when you are somewhere that has a group of Juniors running the clock anyway..... A shot clock would be a disaster!!!!

[PressureD]

Ya i agree. That game went back to bad coaching on the part of CC. Come out and pressure. Use the 5 second count if nothing else!!! I don't understand why some coaches combat the "freeze" with a stand there for 8 minutes D???? Oh well!!

 

Ya the shot clock would be great but when you are somewhere that has a group of Juniors running the clock anyway..... A shot clock would be a disaster!!!!

 

I see both sides. I like the faster pace game and agree with reffin that most possession are less than 30 or 35 seconds for most high school teams. But I also like the idea of giving the weaker teams a chance by letting them "try" to hold the ball. I say try because I also think that a good team can pressure the weaker team into turnovers and force the tempo. I would welcome a shot clock, but it is not something I would necessarily be pushing for at the same time. I am on the fence on this one.

[bulldog787]

Being an ex-tssaa referee, someone saying you stink, does deserve a "T" and depending on how it was done, maybe an ejection.

 

How would you feel if someone came up to you at work and said "YOU STINK!"....no adult or child deserves to call a referee any name because they don't agree with a call...

 

One of the reasons I got out of refereeing was the poor sportsmanship...every year seemed to get worse and worse. I didn't see that it was getting any better.

 

Referee's have tremendous respect for what they do.

 

your an idiot! if you say you stink you shouldnt throw them out or T them. just smile and go on! god so many refs are just big babys now a days