A-AA State Soccer Tournament Format Proposal

[EastCoUnited]

I have read with interest for years now the debate on the fairness of the A-AA State Tournament Soccer participation between public and private schools. This debate peaks at this time of year as many very competitive public school soccer teams are beaten by private schools and their season ends without an opportunity to participate in the State tournament, which is the utilmate goal of any High School soccer program.

 

The cause and effect of why this phenomena occurs each year has many reasons and many combinations thereof from:

 

a. Active or passive recruiting by private schools.

 

b. Successful private school programs attract the above average soccer players to these schools that either win or make the State tournament on a regular basis.

 

c. Private schools do not have 8th grader playing restrictions that public schools do.

 

d. Premier club soccer opportunities are unaffordable to most public school parents. Yes, club programs exist that are affordable, but the best D1 and D2 teams cost several thousand dollars per season and these programs are more likely affordable by parents of the more affluent areas of cities or private school parents.

 

e. Private schools can attract players from a very large geographical area where as public schools are resticted by school district boundries or county lines.

 

f. Private schools can pay more for soccer coaches.

 

g. Private schools have invested in "soccer only" fields and have better overall athletic facilities.

 

h. At least in the USA and Tennessee soccer is considered a more affluent type sport, such as tennis and swimming, and the opportunity to play soccer in many rural area schools are limited due to the schools not offering the sport. This is a perception issue, that if more public schools won the State Tournament that other schools may offer the sport.

 

These are just some of the more obvious reasons why there is a problem with A-AA soccer, but what is even more telling is the statistical data for the past 10 years, including this year participants, that backs up the fairness issue.

 

This facts are:

 

1. Over the last ten years, 1999 to present, 8 of the 10 championships have been won by private schools. (CAK -5 ea. and Knox Catholic, Chattanooga Christian, and Christ Presbyterian Academy - 1 ea.) The two public school championships were won by Ridgeway High School of Memphis in 2000 and 2002 and then this school, due to student population size, moved up to the AAA division.

 

2. In 2007, 2008 & 2009 there were approximately 120 total schools that offered a soccer program in the A-AA division. Close to 80% of those teams were public schools.

 

3. Since 1999 and including this year's State Tournament qualifiers, exactly 50% of the qualifying teams are either public or private schools at 44 each.

 

4. Of the teams advancing to the semi-finals, the percentage of private schools jumps to 68% advancing (27 private schools to 13 public schools). In 2008 all the teams advancing to the semis were private schools. There have been 5 ea. 3 to 1 years, 2 ea. 2 to 2 years and in only 2004 did more public schools advance than privates 1 to 4 and still the lone private school won the State championship.

 

5. Of teams advancing to the finals over the past 10 years, the percentage stays close to the same at 70% private schools playing for the championship (14 privates to 6 publics).

 

I can not speak for the TSSAA, but I would suspect that if one of the three big other sports that they regulate, i.e. football, basketball or baseball / softball, had such a telling disparity that they would act to remedy the situation, seems like Brentwood Academy football comes to mind.

 

Now based upon these telling statistics what is the solution?

 

1. Move all private schools, that do not offer scholarships, to a separate A-AA division? Based upon the proposed realignment for A-AA for next year there appears to be approximately 20 private schools (4 in East Tennessee, 6 in the Chattanooga area, 9 in and around Nashville and 1 in Jackson). This may not be enough teams to field a separate division and travel distance may be problimatic.

 

2. Move all private schools to Division II. This option would provide enough teams in a geographical area so travel expenses would not be prohibitive. but the negative side would be is it fair for private schools that do not award scholarships to compete with private schools that do?

 

3. Set up a merit system simular to European professional leagues where successful teams are grouped together and less successful together. Even though this option has potential, I believe it would be too cumbersome for TSSAA to organize and administer. Also, if this option was explored would AAA be incoorporated in this system? I do not believe the AAA division has a problem with private schools like the A-AA division does, so they would not support this option.

 

4. Limit the qualifying places for private schools in the State tournament based upon participation percentage of all High School teams participating in soccer. If you use the last three years statistics of 80% public to 20% private, you would revise the play-off format for A-AA to where only 2 of the 8 slots in the State Tournament would be available to private schools. Next year you would set the qualifing tournament up so that 2 public school teams would qualify from each geographical area of the State and 2 private schools would also make the tournament. This proposal would assure that the best public schools from an area would make the tournament each year as well as allow the best private schools to also participate.

 

There would be two ways to handle the regular season:

 

1) Set up private school districts as proposed in option 1, or 2) The private schools could play within a geographical frendly district for the regular season, to hold down travel expenses, you could crown a regular season champion, either private or public, and then the private schools would split off into their own State qualifing tournament. I believe that the current districts would have to be reshuffled in order to have at least two private schools in some districts. This would allow head to head play to determine who would advance out of the districts and with seedings. You would have one public school champion and runner up advance and the same for the private schools to their own regional and sectional tournaments and finally public and private schools would compete at the State level for the championship.

 

I believe it is time to quit debating this matter within this forum and for all A-AA public school soccer coaches to lobby their athletic directors, TSSAA or their State legislature representative to fix this situation. There are four options above and maybe some other proposals that should be jointly advanced. I would ask each coach that reads this forum or if you are an interested parent of player to call attention to this post to your school coach and ask them if they feel strongly enough about this matter to begin organizing an approach to action.

 

I believe most if not all public school soccer teams just want a fair way to make it to the State Tournament. Winning it would just be the icing on the cake. The current play-off structure set up by TSSAA will not allow many public schools this opportunity. One of these options would surely accomplish this desire.

 

I would be open to any suggestions on how we should jointly proceed, if enough A-AA schools wish to tackle this problem. I also believe it is a girl's soccer team problem as well. Both programs should advocate that same approach.

[reaction]

So pretty much what your saying is you didn't realize there is a public/private debate forum for this novel?

[uniden]

Everybody gets a trophy, right? It seems that public schools already have a very fair shot at making the state tournament...a) advance to the region championship game, and /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> win the substate game. Private schools have the same path.

 

Tennessee is already in a minority in terms of the way it treats private schools (D-II). Most states have no split at all. I grew up going to public school (in another state). Some schools had good programs in some sports, and some in others. The public / private issue was non-existant, despite the fact that private schools were dominant in several sports.

[wbcsoccerstud11]

Everybody gets a trophy, right? It seems that public schools already have a very fair shot at making the state tournament...a) advance to the region championship game, and /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> win the substate game. Private schools have the same path.

 

Tennessee is already in a minority in terms of the way it treats private schools (D-II). Most states have no split at all. I grew up going to public school (in another state). Some schools had good programs in some sports, and some in others. The public / private issue was non-existant, despite the fact that private schools were dominant in several sports.

 

 

 

Privates already have two divisions to win state in. AAA and A/AA should be for the publics then everyone gets a fair piece of the pie. They can all play amongst each other in the regular season. Just divide to appropriate divisions during play-off time. Whats the problem with that? Because right now privates are winning three!

[Rock]

Unfortunately, this system was caused by Brentwood Academys blatant recruiting in football. Do the private schools in other states openly recruit?

[Coniglio]

So if a couple public schools win the next few state championships then this thread goes away forever.

 

Funny idea. Stop complaining. Win. And do it the right way. Don't recruit, train hard, and play the right way.

 

Good programs recruit themselves. And of course, it doesn't hurt if the kids go to these evil private schools for most of their lives.

 

I'm going to start recruiting kindergardeners from England and bring them over to Xavier for collegiate soccer. That will be about what most of these schools are doing right now.

[reaction]

Save your breathe coniglio. What you just said will go in one ear and out the other with these guys. They want everyone to get a trophy.

[Rock]

Yall are obviously too young to have been around and know what was going on at that time.

[Nashville Panther]

O.K. So everyone understands this. The moment that the private schools become totally separated; which the original poster is advocating here is what will happen. OPEN SEASON RECRUITING ON ALL GOOD PUBLIC SCHOOL PLAYERS!

 

Be careful what you wish for private school haters.

 

By the way, I think the public schools in the metropolitan areas will always vote the proposals down becuase they know that it is better for them (and I would advocate all including the private schools) for the private schools to stay under the regulations of TSSAA than to be outside of TSSAA and have free reign to openly recruit the best players.

 

I want to clarify to the private school readers, that I believe that many private schools do not recruit but if forced into another association, they may be in an arms race with the 2 or 3 private schools in their area that do.

 

 

The current sysytem with a slightly modified multiplier is best for all.

 

No it may not be best for a small town team in a poor area but overall the current system is the best.

[Nashville Panther]

Oh and another note. Getting rid of the private schools is just the start. Once the private schools go they will then turn on the more successful public schools.

 

Soon they will target the public magnet schools (whom have for the most part the affluent people the original poster comented on). Then they will target the public schools in rich areas like Station Camp, Brentwood, Farragut.

 

Playing in a State Championship is not a right.

[BigJee]

This happens all over the state....Come to think of it, I just found out an interesting fact. In the city of Hendersonville, there are 3 teams headed to state. Hendersonville, JP2, and Station Camp... Kinda ironic.. Thats just from 1 suburban city... one AAA, one D2, one A/AA

[akula21]

go to the merit system or quit complaining. my patience is tested constantly reading this. We have been put out by a private for 3 years when I thought we had a team that could have competed if we had gotten out of the region. Sports is not about feeling good all the time. you must learn from losses. they will peak up in life every now and then. I read a comment about how the private school coaches are paid more and have better facilities, I know that is not always true. Look at where catholic plays, it is the football stadium. Heck, bearden has a great facility and they are public, look at what cleveland has done, Oak ridge. And those are just some I saw recently. I understand some of the arguments, but not everyone can get a trophy and I for one whould rather go up against the best to see where we stand then to win a championship knowing I didn't face the best. maybe that is different for some people, but buckle up and play who is infront of you. you never know, if you work hard enough maybe you beat them and we will never hear another complaint from you.

 

geesh, so many of you still don't get it. only one team wins the championship in each division. does that mean everyone else's season was worthless? It is about the journey and life lessons along the way that are truly important in the long run.

 

 

Oh and Bigjee, you spelled my name wrong, it is "i wanna be just like coach gorman!!!"