Multiplier Question

[Govolsknox]

Before I begin, I will state again that I have tremendous respect for Alcoa's football program and fans. They would be a great team without open zoning. Alcoa has not broken ANY rule with regard to this issue, but has simply done what anyone would do and taken advantage of it. But this is about the TSSAA and it's responsibility to be consistent.

 

The TSSAA has attempted in the past to address areas where there is an advantage in order to level the playing field. The whole issue is the size of the talent pool a school has to draw from. Here are a few examples and the TSSAA's past actions to respond:

 

1. School enrollment size. TSSAA action: The TSSAA has divided in to 6 classifications so that schools that have 200 students to draw from aren't competing against schools with 2000 to draw from.

 

2. DII schools: DII schools have an advantage in that they can draw from literally any area AND they can offer financial assistance to student athletes who cannot afford to pay the entire tuition. TSSAA action: Move these schools into a separate division,DII.

 

3. DI private schools: While DI privates cannot offer financial assistance to student athletes, they do have the advantage of drawing kids from literally anywhere that a parent is willing to drive from. TSSAA action: Require the DI privates to be assessed a 1.8 multiplier of their enrollment, causing them to play schools that are larger than their actual enrollment would indicate.

 

So, the question here is where does open zoning fit in? I have tried in the past to have this discussion without it being focused on Alcoa and it just won't happen, so here's how I see it. An open zone school has the best of both worlds. They can have impact players transfer in to play, AND they have a given number of players that will attend simply because they are zoned there. DI privates on the other hand have ZERO students that will attend simply because they are zoned there. Since Alcoa and CAK have been mentioned earlier in this thread, let's compare them.

 

Both can draw from an area larger than a typical school district

CAK has a little over 400 students / Alcoa has a little over 500 students

Tuition at CAK approximately $8000 / Tuition at Alcoa approximately $500

CAK multiplier 1.8 / Alcoa no multiplier

 

There is no question that there are student athletes that would love to get an education at CAK (and other privates) AND play football there, but simply can't afford it. Alcoa on the other hand has excellent academics and excellent football and the $500 tuition would be affordable for many more families. Think about what would happen if private schools with good football programs like Webb, Catholic, and CAK had $500 tuition. Would they be likely to get some excellent athletes that can't afford to go there now? That is the situation that Alcoa is in EXCEPT they have no multiplier.

 

Much has been said about Blount County football. But let's be honest here. Year in and year out, how have Heritage and William Blount been? Not exactly football powerhouses. Given they don't have the coaching, tradition, etc. etc. But when you have student athletes who can make the decision to play football at Heritage or William Blount OR they can go to Alcoa or Maryville, what do you think will happen? Isn't it obvious that many good athletes would prefer to go to a fantastic program instead of working just as hard and finishing with 4 or 5 wins? That's what I would do if I had a son playing football too. I don't blame those parents one bit! But I couldn't keep a straight face and pretend that there is not an advantage for Alcoa and Maryville in being able to do that.

 

My understanding is that over the last several years, Maryville has had to cut way back or eliminate out of zone transfers because they are full. Would it stand to reason that this is a benefit to Alcoa if now families who may potentially choose a different Blount Co school can only choose from Heritage, William Blount, or Alcoa?

 

The TSSAA needs to be consistent. Either address this obvious issue where there in an unlevel playing field, or do away with the DI multiplier, DII division, and size classifications and put everyone in one big pot to let the chips fall where they may. The open zone issue is every bit as valid as those 3 issues, yet to date, it has been ignored by the TSSAA.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Govolsknox

[AlcoasPaintedBridge]

Well you kinda jumped the gun there, but that's OK.

Since I guess I have been appointed Pope of this dilemma for better or worse, I get to set the rules.

My House, My rules.....

Anti open zone have 24 hours to make their cases...BUT!

Your case must be state wide! and include ALL sports.

If you want a multiplier put on open zone, it must include ALL open zone schools (you out there know who you are (Milan, Loudon, Greeneville...etc...) And your case CANNOT be football discriminant. There will be other sports affected by your recommendations and ALL deserve equal respect.

Me and my crack staff of open-zoners will be back on Wednesday to defend our side and you will have the chance to rebut on Thursday and that's it.

The thread will be closed Thursday at midnight. so make your best shot count.

 

 

Regards,

The Bridge.

Edited December 7, 2010 by AlcoasPaintedBridge

[Govolsknox]

Your description of the Alcoa system and a parent's reasons for wanting to send their kids there sounds exactly like a description of a DII private in all respects relevant to this thread. Seems to me that the open zone publics have much more in common in this respect with DII schools than they do with either DI privates or DI "closed zone" schools. Please explain to me why DII was split from DI and why the DI open-zoned schools should not be classed as DII?

 

Robin, while not identical to either, I see the open zone publics closer to the DI privates than DII privates. The distinguishing characteristic of DII is the school allowing athletes who receive financial aid the opportunity to play TSSAA sports. Alcoa does not give financial aid to student athletes which is the same as the DI privates, and therefore more similar to the DI private model.

[AlcoasPaintedBridge]

So, the question here is where does open zoning fit in? I have tried in the past to have this discussion without it being focused on Alcoa and it just won't happen

You are gonna have to make it happen.

May want to give Tony a call....

Edited December 7, 2010 by AlcoasPaintedBridge

[polkalumni]

The problem with giving a multiplier to open-zoned schools is, where do you draw the line. I attended the Polk County School system for all 12 years of school, and I didn't know that we will accept non-resident tuition students until I looked it up today on the system's website. I can't honestly think of one case of this being used. So do you apply the multiplier to school systems that might have this on the books but it is seldom or never used?

 

And just for the record Polk County would be 5A in the current system if the 1.8 multiplier is applied.

[bulldawgs#1]

Govolsknox, the points you made are the ones I have been trying to get at. I hope you have better luck than I have had. And who "appointed APB pope of this thread?" I haven't seen any good arguments out of you yet.

Edited December 7, 2010 by bulldawgs#1

[Govolsknox]

Well you kinda jumped the gun there, but that's OK.

Since I guess I have been appointed Pope of this dilemma for better or worse, I get to set the rules.

My House, My rules.....

Anti open zone have 24 hours to make their cases...BUT!

Your case must be state wide! and include ALL sports.

If you want a multiplier put on open zone, it must include ALL open zone schools (you out there know who you are (Milan, Loudon, Greeneville...etc...) And your case CANNOT be football discriminant. There will be other sports affected by your recommendations and ALL deserve equal respect.

Me and my crack staff of open-zoners will be back on Wednesday to defend our side and you will have the chance to rebut on Thursday and that's it.

The thread will be closed Thursday at midnight. so make your best shot count.

 

 

 

Regards,

The Bridge.

 

With all due respect APB, I don't accept the premise regarding all sports. Football is already being treated differently than other sports, thus 1A - 6A vs 1A - 3A for other sports. Secondly, I don't claim to be an expert on the entire topic or statewide examples of open zone. However, I am very confident that the points in my previous post are logical and hold water. And finally, I don't pretend to have the perfect solution. Nor did I have the solution to DII privates, DI privates, or different size schools being broken into 6 classes. The TSSAA is the one that came up with the "solutions" to level the playing field in these examples. It is the TSSAA's responsibility to find an equitable solution to the open zoning issue.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Govolsknox

[AlcoasPaintedBridge]

Govolsknox, the points you made are the ones I have been trying to get at. I hope you have better luck than I have had. And who "appointed APB pope of this thread?" I haven't seen any good arguments out of you yet.

I havent made an argument yet, you silly person.....

I was waiting on someone and he is here now...so commence!

[Bravey]

One thing is for sure ... the open zone schools are closer being equal to the D1 / D2 schools than the schools where the kid has to reside within the bounderies of that school zone. Its to much of an uneven playing field when you have teams like AE playing Aloca and Aloca could have kids that live in Karns, Bearden etc ... and its well known that all you need is 3 or 4 out of zone kids who are really good players who have been pretty much guaranteed to play to come in and carry a team .. I had heard a rumor that there were a number of kids on Greeneville that should go to Chucky Doak .. dont know if true or not but look at the facilities that Greeneville has .. there is no reason for them not to beat teams like Gibbs, Fulton , Maplewood etc when they can pull players from all over Green Co .... not fair at all !!!!

[bulldawgs#1]

I havent made an argument yet, you silly person.....

I was waiting on someone and he is here now...so commence!

That was sweet of you to wait on him. I guess we can call them "comments."

[Govolsknox]

You are gonna have to make it happen.

May want to give Tony a call....

 

Ha, just remember. You invited me in.

[AlcoasPaintedBridge]

That was sweet of you to wait on him. I guess we can call them "comments."

You should have paid attention during vocabulary time...commence=start...try to keep up here.