Switching schools and remaining eligible a problem in in Memphis

[devilsden]

phargis,

Again my thanks to you for your comments and wisdom. I have a fall birthday and my parents could have held me from enroling in school until the next year. I would have still been under the age limit. When parents do that I dont look at it as I do someone who keeps there child home from school so they will fail especially if they should pass on to the next grade. I think the T$$AA should not let players play that fail because of being absent to many days from school. They ought to find out why they missed the days, were they seriously ill, or did they all of a sudden just start missing days. If there was some kind of pattern the entire school year to me is entirely different then someone who suddenly starts missing days at the end of the schoolyear.

[RedRobin]

Schools have done this forever..Private schools in Nashville have held back players in the 8th grade since the beginning of time.

 

 

Here we go again.... betcha can't point to a single specific incident of this occurring in any Nashville D II school since "the beginning of time." This just does not happen, but feel free to fuel the haters with made up facts.

[PHargis]

phargis,

Again my thanks to you for your comments and wisdom. I have a fall birthday and my parents could have held me from enroling in school until the next year. I would have still been under the age limit. When parents do that I dont look at it as I do someone who keeps there child home from school so they will fail especially if they should pass on to the next grade. I think the T$$AA should not let players play that fail because of being absent to many days from school. They ought to find out why they missed the days, were they seriously ill, or did they all of a sudden just start missing days. If there was some kind of pattern the entire school year to me is entirely different then someone who suddenly starts missing days at the end of the schoolyear.

Its called truancy for missing a lot of days and the school has got something at stake in that they are paid according to how many days the student is there. Since this is a school matter concerning eligibility and I have given you where you might find the answer, I will stop here and not get involved because it is outside my knowledge. What you suggest does sound reasonable but tne TSSAA made the rule for a specific reason and school officials signed off on the rule for the same reason and the details is best known by the parties making the agreement and for it to be discussed here is of no consequence. I would say there is precedence on behalf of the TSSAA on this matter and they would likely turn it over to the school if this is a specific issue, in writing, duly signed, and the reason given. With all respect, it might be better and easier to go to the principal who was a part of the decision and discuss the matter with him/her before tieing up the TSSAA with a matter that will take someone quite a bit of time to investigate. Edited May 26, 2011 by PHargis

[PHargis]

Evidently those of you who think this happens quite often(retaking the 7th or 8th grade in Middle school). There are specific written rules by the TSSAA that I found in two different places. Those who are found doing it will be not be eligible in the 9th grade. It does not say what happens to the administrator in the Middle school who allows it or the fine that has to be paid.

[my2cents]

Evidently those of you who think this happens quite often(retaking the 7th or 8th grade in Middle school). There are specific written rules by the TSSAA that I found in two different places. Those who are found doing it will be not be eligible in the 9th grade. It does not say what happens to the administrator in the Middle school who allows it or the fine that has to be paid.

That is why anyone with any sense knows to do it in the 6th grade, surely every parent would know by then if "Johnny" is All-American material or not. No really if you are going to hold em back do it then, no penalties, or threats of, will be held against you.

[devilsden]

The rules state the penalty for repeating AFTER PASSING the 7 or 8 grade. There aint no penalty if the kid FAILS and repeats. My point is the parents holding the kid out of school so they would FAIL.

[Hoganknows]

Here we go again.... betcha can't point to a single specific incident of this occurring in any Nashville D II school since "the beginning of time." This just does not happen, but feel free to fuel the haters with made up facts.

 

Truth hurts...mostly in basketball and D II was not around then...you might want to check on Granny White Pike or off I-65

[PHargis]

DD, I was afraid this would happen and I can understand it. My comment is going to be the one that likely the TSSAA would give you if you contested this. Since this thread is about infractions in Memphis this is what I am responding to. DD, you started out giving us the facts and now the case is a moving target with other facts which makes me think there may even be more you might have.

If this is something that is going to happen now or has just happened, call the TSSAA and explain the isssues and they will want you to put it in writing and sign it. Only they can help you. They have a way of checking. If the school is a TMSSA school, a roster of each game played with the eligible players has to be sent in to the State Office by the schools participating and it is kept. I would expect that the office could pull the records of the school/schools involved to see if there is a pattern of something happening. Irregardless, a call to the TSSAA is your best first step. As I understand it, your buddy knows of a TMSSA school around Memphis that has been allowing students to retake grades 7-8 and keep their eligibility and play 3 years in those grades. He says, your buddy that its legal, and you are trying to find out if it is. You evidently have someone you know who wants to do the same thing. Page 34-38 in the handbook is something you might need to check. On the TSSAA Homepage there is a section on eligibility you might check. Calling the TSSAA is a way to check. Checking with the principal of the school who likely has a copy of the rosters sent in to the state, is a good place to check. FOR THERE TO BE AS MANY PLACES THAT THIS SHOWS UP IN THE RULES ABOUT THE MATTER, THERE HAS TO BE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS HAPPENING. If you want to pursue this, contact the TSSAA office but have your facts. If I understand your point, this is not a win/loss situation but a situation of students extending their eligibility in Middle School to help their high school experience whereever they go to high school. Read 2cents comments because it sounds as if he is familiar with a situation such as this. Sounds to me, if a lot of this is going on, the State is going to collect some money in fines.

[PHargis]

Truth hurts...mostly in basketball and D II was not around then...you might want to check on Granny White Pike or off I-65

Now lets touch on this. What happened or didn't happen in another era or in another time frame or at a time when concepts, rules, etc were different really doesn't matter and admitting one knows of that is of no consequence. And wanting to check on that is of little value as reasons changed over the years when mental maturity had as much to do with situations as physical ability. Reading in to your statement "truth hurts" makes me think there is some guilt even knowing about it. Its best to admit that good people sometimes do dumb, crazy and idiotic things. Maybe thats the reason that some time later a rule shows up that earlier was not thought was of much consequence and now in the age of high performance, its not acceptable because doing it "en masse" give too many "an edge" and has some impact on the educational system. While you may know some isolated situation, it could have been done in isolated situations all over Middle Tennessee for a lot of reasons other than "an edge". Facts might show that some parent made the decision that they didn't like the development of their child during that year due to some conflict with teachers in the growing up process and decided doing that instead of going to "summer school". Now doing it is not wrong but doing it and not being visable about it could be. If it is done, there are other consequences (can't do it just to play athletics). Can go to the "Y" but not play for your school again. Thats the rule and its important enough that its in the rules that the school systems have signed off on that it shows up some 4 times. Retaking whole grades in schools is non productive and expensive if its only to be good in high school athletics. This has nothing to do with DII schools although facts might show some students that went to Private high Schools did spend more time in the 7th and 8th grade than they should.

[Hoganknows]

Now lets touch on this. What happened or didn't happen in another era or in another time frame or at a time when concepts, rules, etc were different really doesn't matter and admitting one knows of that is of no consequence. And wanting to check on that is of little value as reasons changed over the years when mental maturity had as much to do with situations as physical ability. Reading in to your statement "truth hurts" makes me think there is some guilt even knowing about it. Its best to admit that good people sometimes do dumb, crazy and idiotic things. Maybe thats the reason that some time later a rule shows up that earlier was not thought was of much consequence and now in the age of high performance, its not acceptable because doing it "en masse" give too many "an edge" and has some impact on the educational system. While you may know some isolated situation, it could have been done in isolated situations all over Middle Tennessee for a lot of reasons other than "an edge". Facts might show that some parent made the decision that they didn't like the development of their child during that year due to some conflict with teachers in the growing up process and decided doing that instead of going to "summer school". Now doing it is not wrong but doing it and not being visable about it could be. If it is done, there are other consequences (can't do it just to play athletics). Can go to the "Y" but not play for your school again. Thats the rule and its important enough that its in the rules that the school systems have signed off on that it shows up some 4 times. Retaking whole grades in schools is non productive and expensive if its only to be good in high school athletics. This has nothing to do with DII schools although facts might show some students that went to Private high Schools did spend more time in the 7th and 8th grade than they should.

 

Man, that's way too long to read, but in mid 80's to mid 90's lots of schools were holding back 8th graders so they were a year older and stronger by the time they got to their senior year in high school. Rules were changed and this was stopped in most all parts of state and your correct both private and public schools did have athletes retaking the 8th grade. I haven't seen this practice done much lately.

[RedRobin]

Truth hurts...mostly in basketball and D II was not around then...you might want to check on Granny White Pike or off I-65

 

 

Uh...OK. You obviously have no clue as to why parents choose to spend their money sending their children to one of the many fine D II schools in the state (despite what the uninformed may think, no one attends any DII school for free, even if they get financial aid) - athletics plays a part, but only a part, in virtually all cases. Let's analyze the specifics of your claims:

 

I assume your Granny White reference is to BA - costs about $17,000 a year for 7th - 8th grade tuition there; ignoring for the moment the social, academic and other problems which would be caused by intentionally "flunking" a child, that would be a pretty expensive gamble, especially given the fact that projecting athletic greatness on a 7th - 8th grade student is an inexact science at best.

 

With respect to your I-65 reference, I assume you mean FRA and/or Father Ryan. FRA costs almost $16,000/year at that grade level and is far from a "jock school" culture, so I don't buy that at all. If you are referencing Father Ryan, they start in 9th grade, so I seriously doubt that they would be involved in holding back any 7th or 8th graders.

 

You need not like or approve of D II schools, but you need not slander them by spreading false rumors.

[devilsden]

Not talking about Memphis. Talking about middle schools far to the east of Memphis. I thank you for the T$$AA pages to look up and I did. Middle school is NOT a TM$AA school so there are no guidelines. I think they have found a way to legally cheat and I'm hopping the T$$AA will change the rules so this can't happen agin. I don't know nobody at T$$AA and they dont know me so it prolly wont do any good to contact them as they would think it was just a mad parent, well there right.