MBA vs. Trinity

[RedRobin]

They win the right way??? get real man. You are out to lunch. EHS has more "scholarship" players than you can shake a stick at. They have to pay up big time just to fill a team. I love the comment that one EHS official has said..."they just show up on our doorstep." Come on....at least be honest. It is the best team HCA money can buy. And you might want to look up the word class...you won't see Ensworth next to it.

 

 

Since you seem quite the connoisseur of financial aid, then you no doubt understand that under Section 16 of the TSSAA rules, financial aid may be awarded on the basis of need, but proof of such need must be filed in the TSSAA office on forms approved by the Executive Director and that in order to determine the basis for need, all schools awarding financial aid shall use one of the following services in order to determine the basis for need: FACTS Grant and Aid Assessment (FACTS), Financial Aid for School Tuition (FAST), School and Student Scholastic Service for Financial Aid (SSS), Family Financial Needs Assessment (FFNA), Private School Aid Services, or Smart Tuition Aid. Schools must choose one of the companies for all student-athletes. Moreover, I am certain that you are also aware that a committee consisting of School Heads from Division II schools and one ex-officio, non-voting member from the Board of Control and Legislative Council will meet and make recommendations to the Board of Control on each student submitted. In addition, this committee will collect information from schools regarding financial aid statistics, grant procedures, and the overall financial aid program within the school. The Board of Control will then rule on all cases at the August meeting. The Board of Control shall have authority to reject the basis of need for students when in its opinion, or in the opinion of the school committee, the amount of need stated by the financial service cannot be justified.

 

If you have trouble understanding the above, it means that financial aid at all Division 2 schools is overseen and approved by a single committee each year. In other words, the same committee that rules on Ensworth aid also rules on aid to students at BA, MBA, BGA, MUS, Baylor, McCallie, CBHS, Knoxville Webb, DCA, USN, etc. I am sure that your allegation that this committee, comprised of the school heads of each of the Division 2 schools, favors Ensworth over all other D2 schools is based on solid evidence. Have you perhaps uncovered some dastardly plot by which Ensworth is bribing the heads of BA, MBA, and all of these other schools to put their own schools at a competitive disadvantage??? Or perhaps you are aware that they are all dull-witted and have been duped by the evil geniuses at Ensworth? Please, please share with us your evidence - if what you say is true, this will absolutely rock the D2 world.

[nike7]

Quit acting so superior to everyone. You got the facts on him, that's all you need.

[RollBigRed]

Are you the athlete, the gentleman or the scholar????

 

Didn't think so.

I may not be any of the above, but I do know the truth. Maybe you can't handle the truth? I did not go to MBA. Honesty hurts bro. Just suck it up. Admit the truth, accept what it is and move on. HCA money built EHS and continues to fund the football program.

[RollBigRed]

Quit acting so superior to everyone. You got the facts on him, that's all you need.

Thanks nike7, but don't need your help on this one. I understand TSSAA rules. RedRobin missed the point. EHS can not field a football team unless they continue to recruit potential football players and award (pay) scholarships to enough players to field a team. Just look at their roster. The fact is they do not draw enough from the typical west Nashville private feeder schools to field a team. So who do you think is paying to have a football team? Chirp on up there RedRobin.

[sportshooter]

Since you seem quite the connoisseur of financial aid, then you no doubt understand that under Section 16 of the TSSAA rules, financial aid may be awarded on the basis of need, but proof of such need must be filed in the TSSAA office on forms approved by the Executive Director and that in order to determine the basis for need, all schools awarding financial aid shall use one of the following services in order to determine the basis for need: FACTS Grant and Aid Assessment (FACTS), Financial Aid for School Tuition (FAST), School and Student Scholastic Service for Financial Aid (SSS), Family Financial Needs Assessment (FFNA), Private School Aid Services, or Smart Tuition Aid. Schools must choose one of the companies for all student-athletes. Moreover, I am certain that you are also aware that a committee consisting of School Heads from Division II schools and one ex-officio, non-voting member from the Board of Control and Legislative Council will meet and make recommendations to the Board of Control on each student submitted. In addition, this committee will collect information from schools regarding financial aid statistics, grant procedures, and the overall financial aid program within the school. The Board of Control will then rule on all cases at the August meeting. The Board of Control shall have authority to reject the basis of need for students when in its opinion, or in the opinion of the school committee, the amount of need stated by the financial service cannot be justified.

 

If you have trouble understanding the above, it means that financial aid at all Division 2 schools is overseen and approved by a single committee each year. In other words, the same committee that rules on Ensworth aid also rules on aid to students at BA, MBA, BGA, MUS, Baylor, McCallie, CBHS, Knoxville Webb, DCA, USN, etc. I am sure that your allegation that this committee, comprised of the school heads of each of the Division 2 schools, favors Ensworth over all other D2 schools is based on solid evidence. Have you perhaps uncovered some dastardly plot by which Ensworth is bribing the heads of BA, MBA, and all of these other schools to put their own schools at a competitive disadvantage??? Or perhaps you are aware that they are all dull-witted and have been duped by the evil geniuses at Ensworth? Please, please share with us your evidence - if what you say is true, this will absolutely rock the D2 world.

Robin, how do you think Ensworth compares with other DII schools in regard to the amount of financial aid they award athletes? I am just curious if there is any correlation between the amount of money paid out in financial aid and won-loss record. I am not suggesting EHS or any other school is doing anything illegal. I would just like to know if, like major league baseball, the team with the highest payroll wins at a higher rate. I could be off base here but these numbers should be available to the public. Also, I wish some posters would stop asking for proof that DII schools recruit. Of course they recruit. How else would they attract students? I am certain that recruiting is not a violation provided it is done within the rules i.e. a coach can't approach an athlete at a middle school game. And just because a committee rules on the aid an athlete can be awarded, that does not mean the authorized amount is actually paid by the parents. The recent MBA disclosure is a good example that athletes may be receiving more help than is authorized by the committee.

[RedRobin]

Thanks nike7, but don't need your help on this one. I understand TSSAA rules. RedRobin missed the point. EHS can not field a football team unless they continue to recruit potential football players and award (pay) scholarships to enough players to field a team. Just look at their roster. The fact is they do not draw enough from the typical west Nashville private feeder schools to field a team. So who do you think is paying to have a football team? Chirp on up there RedRobin.

 

 

What would you like me to chirp about? The fact that if you think Ensworth is playing by some different rules then you clearly do not understand the TSSAA rule book? The fact that Ensworth has more players on their team that have attended the school since pre-first grade (a/k/a kindergarten) than does any other school of which I am aware? The fact that in their short history, Ensworth has had as much, if not more, success on the football field as has MBA while having less players recruited to play football at Division 1 schools (which in my mind calls into question your "recruit" theory)? The fact that the winning touchdown pass in last year's championship game was thrown by a kid from Brentwood and caught by a kid from Belle Meade? I really don't understand what you are trying to say or imply, so why don't you either man up and say whatever it is that you think needs to be said or quit taking cheap shots at a program about which you obviously know very little?

[doct]

Since you seem quite the connoisseur of financial aid, then you no doubt understand that under Section 16 of the TSSAA rules, financial aid may be awarded on the basis of need, but proof of such need must be filed in the TSSAA office on forms approved by the Executive Director and that in order to determine the basis for need, all schools awarding financial aid shall use one of the following services in order to determine the basis for need: FACTS Grant and Aid Assessment (FACTS), Financial Aid for School Tuition (FAST), School and Student Scholastic Service for Financial Aid (SSS), Family Financial Needs Assessment (FFNA), Private School Aid Services, or Smart Tuition Aid. Schools must choose one of the companies for all student-athletes. Moreover, I am certain that you are also aware that a committee consisting of School Heads from Division II schools and one ex-officio, non-voting member from the Board of Control and Legislative Council will meet and make recommendations to the Board of Control on each student submitted. In addition, this committee will collect information from schools regarding financial aid statistics, grant procedures, and the overall financial aid program within the school. The Board of Control will then rule on all cases at the August meeting. The Board of Control shall have authority to reject the basis of need for students when in its opinion, or in the opinion of the school committee, the amount of need stated by the financial service cannot be justified.

 

If you have trouble understanding the above, it means that financial aid at all Division 2 schools is overseen and approved by a single committee each year. In other words, the same committee that rules on Ensworth aid also rules on aid to students at BA, MBA, BGA, MUS, Baylor, McCallie, CBHS, Knoxville Webb, DCA, USN, etc. I am sure that your allegation that this committee, comprised of the school heads of each of the Division 2 schools, favors Ensworth over all other D2 schools is based on solid evidence. Have you perhaps uncovered some dastardly plot by which Ensworth is bribing the heads of BA, MBA, and all of these other schools to put their own schools at a competitive disadvantage??? Or perhaps you are aware that they are all dull-witted and have been duped by the evil geniuses at Ensworth? Please, please share with us your evidence - if what you say is true, this will absolutely rock the D2 world.

 

Why do you guys keeep debating this topic? Citing all the codes, etc...just let it go! As long as you win, people will always point fingers. Great coaches just win...period. Coach Flatt, Bowers, Pack, just fill in the blank--those guys will win anywhere. Why? Because they are better than the other coaches. If talent alone made a great team, then I (as a BA supporter) would have bet the house on Memphis Southwind and Kingsbury, 2 teams we played last year. I played in the 70's and 80's. Guys like Tommy Owen, Carlton Flatt, Calvin Short, Nick Coutrous, Wes Elrod, Bill Derrick, Boots Donnelly, etc, just got it done. They were at the top of their profession. I am tired of hearing Private school fans debating and defending their schools and admission practices. If the rules were played with as loosely as many would believe, how quickly would the TSSAA be on the scene? There are great coaches in the public school ranks such as Rankin, Adylette, Quarles, B Price at Signal Mountain, etc. Coach Shadowens at Blackman is a stud of a coach. Guess what, since they win, they are accused of recruiting! To me, it's part of our society's problem--we seem to want to bring down those that are successful to make us feel better. I wish some on this board would quit defending their team's success and just accept it as a by product of a great program.

[RedRobin]

Robin, how do you think Ensworth compares with other DII schools in regard to the amount of financial aid they award athletes? I am just curious if there is any correlation between the amount of money paid out in financial aid and won-loss record. I am not suggesting EHS or any other school is doing anything illegal. I would just like to know if, like major league baseball, the team with the highest payroll wins at a higher rate. I could be off base here but these numbers should be available to the public. Also, I wish some posters would stop asking for proof that DII schools recruit. Of course they recruit. How else would they attract students? I am certain that recruiting is not a violation provided it is done within the rules i.e. a coach can't approach an athlete at a middle school game. And just because a committee rules on the aid an athlete can be awarded, that does not mean the authorized amount is actually paid by the parents. The recent MBA disclosure is a good example that athletes may be receiving more help than is authorized by the committee.

 

 

I have absolutely no idea how Ensworth compares with other schools in regard to the amount of financial aid awarded. I would be shocked if those numbers are made available to the public by any D2 school. I agree that success breeds success and that kids and parents want to go to schools which they think will provide them with the best preparation for a successful life (which can and is defined in a myriad of ways). I also agree that rules can be broken, despite the best efforts and intentions of the TSSAA and of the schools themselves, and I urge RollBigRed or any other to turn any information regarding inappropriate practices over to the TSSAA. I do have a problem when blowhards get on these boards and make accusations based on hatred and jealousy, rather than on any demonstrable facts.

[RedRobin]

Why do you guys keeep debating this topic? Citing all the codes, etc...just let it go! As long as you win, people will always point fingers. Great coaches just win...period. Coach Flatt, Bowers, Pack, just fill in the blank--those guys will win anywhere. Why? Because they are better than the other coaches. If talent alone made a great team, then I (as a BA supporter) would have bet the house on Memphis Southwind and Kingsbury, 2 teams we played last year. I played in the 70's and 80's. Guys like Tommy Owen, Carlton Flatt, Calvin Short, Nick Coutrous, Wes Elrod, Bill Derrick, Boots Donnelly, etc, just got it done. They were at the top of their profession. I am tired of hearing Private school fans debating and defending their schools and admission practices. If the rules were played with as loosely as many would believe, how quickly would the TSSAA be on the scene? There are great coaches in the public school ranks such as Rankin, Adylette, Quarles, B Price at Signal Mountain, etc. Coach Shadowens at Blackman is a stud of a coach. Guess what, since they win, they are accused of recruiting! To me, it's part of our society's problem--we seem to want to bring down those that are successful to make us feel better. I wish some on this board would quit defending their team's success and just accept it as a by product of a great program.

 

You are, I am sure, speaking from experience and are of course correct. Thanks for the reminder that these boards exist to discuss the enjoyment we all get from athletic effort and achievement. I look forward to a lot of great action in D2-AA this year!

[KWoodroof]

Robin, how do you think Ensworth compares with other DII schools in regard to the amount of financial aid they award athletes? I am just curious if there is any correlation between the amount of money paid out in financial aid and won-loss record. I am not suggesting EHS or any other school is doing anything illegal. I would just like to know if, like major league baseball, the team with the highest payroll wins at a higher rate. I could be off base here but these numbers should be available to the public. Also, I wish some posters would stop asking for proof that DII schools recruit. Of course they recruit. How else would they attract students? I am certain that recruiting is not a violation provided it is done within the rules i.e. a coach can't approach an athlete at a middle school game. And just because a committee rules on the aid an athlete can be awarded, that does not mean the authorized amount is actually paid by the parents. The recent MBA disclosure is a good example that athletes may be receiving more help than is authorized by the committee.

There was some material along the lines of what you're seeking. I don't remember enough details to say anything definitive, but I believe Ryan and JP II were at the bottom, which seems consistent with your theory. I'm not sure I'm ready to call it "cause and effect" yet, since the opening of JP II took a chunk of students who probably would have gone to Ryan. Still, you have an interesting idea...not sure how we'd prove either theory.

[pecos]

What would you like me to chirp about? The fact that if you think Ensworth is playing by some different rules then you clearly do not understand the TSSAA rule book? The fact that Ensworth has more players on their team that have attended the school since pre-first grade (a/k/a kindergarten) than does any other school of which I am aware? The fact that in their short history, Ensworth has had as much, if not more, success on the football field as has MBA while having less players recruited to play football at Division 1 schools (which in my mind calls into question your "recruit" theory)? The fact that the winning touchdown pass in last year's championship game was thrown by a kid from Brentwood and caught by a kid from Belle Meade? I really don't understand what you are trying to say or imply, so why don't you either man up and say whatever it is that you think needs to be said or quit taking cheap shots at a program about which you obviously know very little?

 

Just have to jump in here even if it's not directly on the subject. To further support the above facts, last years state championship basketball team had seven players and four starters that began at Ensworth in pre-first grade and they all paid 100% of the tuition. Yes, there are athletes and non-athletes on need based financial aid at Ensworth but it is a much smaller percentage of the total student body than you might think. Thankfully there is need based aid available because it would be a very boring place without it. Oh wait, there already is a place like that, they call it Belle Meade Country Club.

[shakinthefat]

Just have to jump in here even if it's not directly on the subject. To further support the above facts, last years state championship basketball team had seven players and four starters that began at Ensworth in pre-first grade and they all paid 100% of the tuition.

 

I would assume you are privileged to this information (100%) because you are an EHS admissions faculty, EHS headmaster, EHS Board of Trustee, AD, or you went to the 7 players and families and asked for this info.

Can you divulge how this info was obtained? It is not available to the average Coach T poster.

When it came time to talk to private schools many years ago, there was no 100% given and the application went to a clearing house independent of the school for approval for the 3 schools I talked to. EHS was not one of the schools.

Has this changed or is it different at EHS?