Other rules questions

[mwtfan]

Are there any rules/requirements for court setup during tournament play? I'm talking about things such as clear space around the perimeter of the court boundaries, how far the team benches should be from the court boundaries, minimum overhead clearance, etc??

 

Also, are there any rules concerning how far a player can go outside of the court boundaries to get a "live" ball? I understand the purpose of the antennas, I am saying for instance a player goes beyond her team's bench, two rows deep in the bleachers to chase a tip & hits the ball back to a teammate.

Edited October 21, 2011 by mwtfan

[PHargis]

Someone else should answer But, the officials are in charge and the coaches should have met with the officials and the exceptions to the rules were discussed and everything was approved at that meeting. The only good answer to that question I might have is ask your coach and if that doesn't satify you come back, and it will be discussed. That is a good question and they have been asked before in another years play. The answer you wnat is playing on a court with the right size. and Won't someone get hurt running outside the boundries. you know the answer as well as I but what was agreed to and for what reason,??????? Jumping to no conclusions. There was an Officials/Coaches meeting. A Tournament I was at, the meeting took about 15 minutes and a walk up and down the Bench area. Players sat on the floor at the end of the bench and the up official stopped the start of the game until everything was right and the down ref went over and had one of the scorers make a note as to what they had done. They wnbet thru that routine for every special infraction. In all tournaments so far, these Middle Tennessee officials called and kept up with everything imagineable. And FYI, lifts and mishits were called tightly. No room for mistakes there. Come back if you need a specific but this is Tournament, someone approved the surface before hand. thats the issue.

Edited October 21, 2011 by PHargis

[mwtfan]

Someone else should answer But, the officials are in charge and the coaches should have met with the officials and the exceptions to the rules were discussed and everything was approved at that meeting. The only good answer to that question I might have is ask your coach and if that doesn't satify you come back, and it will be discussed. That is a good question and they have been asked before in another years play. The answer you wnat is playing on a court with the right size. and Won't someone get hurt running outside the boundries. you know the answer as well as I but what was agreed to and for what reason,??????? Jumping to no conclusions. There was an Officials/Coaches meeting. A Tournament I was at, the meeting took about 15 minutes and a walk up and down the Bench area. Players sat on the floor at the end of the bench and the up official stopped the start of the game until everything was right and the down ref went over and had one of the scorers make a note as to what they had done. They wnbet thru that routine for every special infraction. In all tournaments so far, these Middle Tennessee officials called and kept up with everything imagineable. And FYI, lifts and mishits were called tightly. No room for mistakes there. Come back if you need a specific but this is Tournament, someone approved the surface before hand. thats the issue.

I think you missed my point as is obvious in the first few lines of your reply when you said the "exceptions to the rules were discussed". Exceptions to what rules? I was simply asking: "Are there any rules?" that govern those things. Furthermore, if there are, what are they? Just a simple, innocent question, nothing more.

Edited October 21, 2011 by mwtfan

[coachjs]

No set rule on amount of space for any match in any part of the season except 6ft. for serving. As for playing area it is determined by the refs before the start of the match. Usually a ball is considered out of play once a player has crossed past team benches. They could play a ball and fall into a bench but not go behind it. As for the stands, most refs will tell the girls they can play a ball that is going into the stands but not be in the stands to play it, kind of like the bench area.

[PHargis]

I would agree, he said it better. He added the 6 feet. This is a coach that was in the Sectionals and has coached for many years to give some creditability. There is no footprint of the floor and the officials gave the guidence.

[rpack119]

I would agree, he said it better. He added the 6 feet. This is a coach that was in the Sectionals and has coached for many years to give some creditability. There is no footprint of the floor and the officials gave the guidence.

 

Generally speaking a player must have one foot on the gym floor when playing a ball the is in the stands. Officials cover this in the Coaches and captains meeting prior to the match.

 

Most times the area directly behind team benches is considered out of bounds. If the gym has open space at the end of the bench a player may play that ball if it is covered in the meeting before the game.

[PHargis]

This is a good point. The security meetings and the officials meeting with the coaches and captains may seem superficial but a great deal is covered in those meetings and you will see a lot of listening going on as far as the Coaches and Captians are concerned. It is the responsibility of the Captains to know special rules and boundries if Officials bring up the subject. That meeting is not just to shake hands, introduce ones self, etc. The responsibility of a Captian is to be a listener and a leader of knowing rules because she might wind up, on behalf of the coach, asking the Up official about some rule during a match and having to communiicate the answer back to the coach.

[mwtfan]

Ok, thanks to all. I just find it hard to believe that neither TSSAA nor NFHS address the issue beyond that. Just seems to me like they could take a lot of that pressure off the official if the written rules addressed it. It would be akin to letting a football ref say we're going to play on a 50 yard field today, or a baseball ump saying we'll go ahead and play today even thought the pitching rubber is at 45' and the bases are 60 feet apart, or the basketball goals can be set at 8 feet, etc.

Edited October 21, 2011 by mwtfan

[riverdaleman]

Ok, thanks to all. I just find it hard to believe that neither TSSAA nor NFHS address the issue beyond that. Just seems to me like they could take a lot of that pressure off the official if the written rules addressed it. It would be akin to letting a football ref say we're going to play on a 50 yard field today, or a baseball ump saying we'll go ahead and play today even thought the pitching rubber is at 45' and the bases are 60 feet apart, or the basketball goals can be set at 8 feet, etc.

the size of the court never changes in your anaolgy in baseball if the ball is hit over the 3rd basebag and goes deep in the corner of foul territory its still a playable ball...In volleyball the court stays the same as far as the bench goes they usually have up to the bench and past the end of thebench they can go get it as long as it can be done SAFELY

[PHargis]

mwfan, let me give another example. One venue volleyball plays at is a gym that has screens deviding the playing floor and the benches are backed up to the screens on one side of each playing floor and screens devide the ends of the court, some 8 feet and fans walk between courts at the ends of each court.

Configerations of courts are different. There is no room behind the benches and very little room at the ends and on one side of the Court are bleachers at each side of thee net. At the officials meeting, the official lays out the rules of that court and he/she should. Safety could and should be an issue on the bleacher side and plowing over or into the bench could be but the court is of such a diminision that a player would have to build up a hefty speed to do that and it likely will never happen. The Official gives instructions and makes sure the players understand the safety issues involoved and play is started.

[mwtfan]

the size of the court never changes in your anaolgy in baseball if the ball is hit over the 3rd basebag and goes deep in the corner of foul territory its still a playable ball...In volleyball the court stays the same as far as the bench goes they usually have up to the bench and past the end of thebench they can go get it as long as it can be done SAFELY

Not sure I understand what you are saying. In baseball, I can dive into the stands to make a catch. Does that mean baseball doesn't care about safety?

 

This topic has taken a turn that I didn't intend. The reason I asked this question in the first place is that in most HS gyms that I have been to over the years, vb courts can be set up 2 different ways. They can be set up to have 1 court, which typically runs the same direction as the basketball court (we'll call that 'long ways'), or 2 courts can be set up 'sideways'. I understand the need to be able to do this as it is a necessity, when you are having tournaments with many teams, to be able to play multiple games at the same time. I get that. However, when courts are set up this way, there are gyms in which one vb sideline is only a few feet away from a concrete block wall. Is that safe? It's probably okay, but it very much changes the way the game is played. Players can't "go after" a ball on that sideline with the same freedom they normally would. I also understand that both teams face the same hazard. What I am saying is that for HS post-season tournament play, it is not normally a necessity to play more than 1 game at a time, so a court should not be set up to run 'sideways'. The preferred way to set up a court during the tournament should be 'long ways' where there is plenty of room all around the perimeter, and no 'rolled up' basketball goals directly above the net. These athletes work very hard, and (particularly at this time of year) it seems so 'rinky-dink' to do it any other way. I just feel that all these ladies deserve better than that.

Edited October 22, 2011 by mwtfan

[PHargis]

You make some very good points and I agree with most. Economics have gotten in the way of doing it the proper way. We can discuss the reasons for that. Time spent in the Boro and cutting fans costs is another.

Right now we are getting closer to finding a way to take care of what you are describing, if the Regionals were handled the way they were in the District I am in and certainly the way the times changed, it may not have been.

We could have used full court for 3 matches and a finals that took 5 hours to play 11 games or we had room to run the courts side by side and take about 4 hours or less to play. Under the first senario due to scheduling, the school traveling brought a very small crowd for a first match which started at 4:00. the other school ws the host but its crowd and opportunity to see the match was down some also. The 5:30 match schools got there jsut barely before play time but the 7:00 match was all right.

You, I can tell, are a purist. And I would say the tradeoff might be the players would rather have the crowd in that senario than to take longer to play. Smaller space is all right up until a point. Many large schools can cut down the seating and get a nice size area and get the patrons in and out. The other thing is this. Players today are used to playing in smaller venues with all of the Club playing going on. A big school gym is larger than that and played 4 months likely after club season is over. Third, quad matches are being played regularly now with 2 sid by sides for economic reasons as the fans seem to think their time is valuable and may not come.

My comments only try to explain why this happened not to condone it but I am a time freak and the last senario fits my schedule better. I have not seen anyone hurt in a side by side. I have seen sprained ankles, cut eyes, broken ankles, which I cant say have to do with a small gym. Of course I may see the first one Wednesday.

Now my first point, the regional setup was not bad, everything at one day. One match at a time. I believe some changed their times and had side by side 2 matches at the same time and the finals, full court. The region wanted to do it that way, They had to drive and had to go to work the next day.

Now back to the State, you may have a good idea but you may not have the votes. This post was too long. This discussion on this matter has been going on for 7 years that i know and someone is just finishing reading this and fixing to say, "It needs to be done on the weekend. It will get more patrons." Your turn to answer that one. I've been there before.

Edited October 22, 2011 by PHargis