The Poster Child of How the New Playoff System is Broke....

[slagiatt]

Got to the DNJ.com and read Kreagers article under the sports tab. choose high school sports and you will be able to find it. He brings up a good point. Coffee Co makes it in under the old system and a good 7-3 team from Siegel gets left out. He also mentions some tweaks that would help. Hogan you would like one of them.

 

He made good points............The Coffee Co./Siegel is simple. Go back to old "bowl rule"......NO BOWL GAME UNLESS YOU WIN 6 GAMES; if you do not win 6; you do not enter the play-offs!! spot will be filled by a lesser team from another region; if not possible........do like the lower clases---have byes for the top-seeded teams.

New coacht rule --- YOU WILL NOT GET CREDIT FOR MAKING PLAY-OFFS UNLESS YOU MAKE 2ND ROUND!! I am want to puke when I hear these teams claiming play-off status from small or "easy" regions and then getting axed quick. Sorry Oakland/MJ..........you both live in a hard world (LOL). I can remember in early years play-offs; most teams were 10-0 or 9-1; the 8-2/ 7-3's went to bowl games.

Here is a novel thought.........make last game the first round of play-offs and let all play!! Would require some byes!

[QBClubPrez]

Scheduling is a major issue when you got a playoff system based on overall wins and loses. But, the Bartlett/ Craigmont case shows how broke this system is when head to head is not a major determining factor who advances.

 

I agree as well!

[davidlimbaugh]

I agree as well!

 

Another example of how this system does not work.

 

Compare these schedules

 

Team A

6A at Riverdale L 6-49 - (10-0) Won their district

4A Raleigh Egypt W 49-0 (2-8)

4A at Covington W 21-10 (8-2)

5A at Jackson North Side W 42-14 (D) (2-8)

6A Millington W 42-20 (9-1) Won their district

5A Munford W 35-0 (D) (5-5)

3A G.W. Carver W 49-8 (1-9)

5A Hardin County W 42-7 (D) (4-6)

6A Cordova W 49-21 (4-6)

5A Dyer County W 29-28 (8-2)

 

3A (1-0)

4A (2-0)

5A (4-0)

6A (2-1)

 

Team B

5A Antioch W 31-0 (6-4) won their district

6A at Wilson Central W 21-17 (2-8)

6A at Oakland L 0-28 (D) (6-4)

6A at Mt. Juliet L 19-35 (10-0) won their district

6A Smyrna L 13-45(D) (6-4)

5A Shelbyville L 21-28 (7-3)

6A Riverdale L 14-42 (D) (10-0) won their district

6A at Siegel L 14-21 (D) (7-3)

3A CAK W 43-42 (8-2) won their district

6A Blackman L 12-28 (D) (7-3)

 

3A (1-0)

5A (1-1)

6A (1-6)

 

If Team A played Team B's schedule and Team B played team A's schedule how would they have fared? This is my example of how using non-district games is inherently not fair.

Edited November 1, 2011 by davidlimbaugh

[dou]

Another example of how this system does not work.

 

Compare these schedules

 

Team A

6A at Riverdale L 6-49 - (10-0) Won their district

4A Raleigh Egypt W 49-0 (2-8)

4A at Covington W 21-10 (8-2)

5A at Jackson North Side W 42-14 (D) (2-8)

6A Millington W 42-20 (9-1) Won their district

5A Munford W 35-0 (D) (5-5)

3A G.W. Carver W 49-8 (1-9)

5A Hardin County W 42-7 (D) (4-6)

6A Cordova W 49-21 (4-6)

5A Dyer County W 29-28 (8-2)

 

3A (1-0)

4A (2-0)

5A (4-0)

6A (2-1)

 

Team B

5A Antioch W 31-0 (6-4) won their district

6A at Wilson Central W 21-17 (2-8)

6A at Oakland L 0-28 (D) (6-4)

6A at Mt. Juliet L 19-35 (10-0) won their district

6A Smyrna L 13-45(D) (6-4)

5A Shelbyville L 21-28 (7-3)

6A Riverdale L 14-42 (D) (10-0) won their district

6A at Siegel L 14-21 (D) (7-3)

3A CAK W 43-42 (8-2) won their district

6A Blackman L 12-28 (D) (7-3)

 

3A (1-0)

5A (1-1)

6A (1-6)

 

If Team A played Team B's schedule and Team B played team A's schedule how would they have fared? This is my example of how using non-district games is inherently not fair.

I agree that is why many teams are playing the weak non district teams. We played one of the toughest non district schedules for two years it did not benefit us. I was one who bought into the arguement of play the big boys if you lose, it will make you stronger in the end. I guess that could still be true but injuries and tne constant tough games may also hurt in the end. As well as losses to top teams from other states,districts or classes.

[davidlimbaugh]

I agree that is why many teams are playing the weak non district teams. We played one of the toughest non district schedules for two years it did not benefit us. I was one who bought into the arguement of play the big boys if you lose, it will make you stronger in the end. I guess that could still be true but injuries and tne constant tough games may also hurt in the end. As well as losses to top teams from other states,districts or classes.

 

How did Bartlett get left out and Craigmont get in?

 

Bartlett's Schedule

6A Memphis Central W 34-31 (3-7)

D2 at St. Benedict L 14-30 (6-3)

6A Millington L 7-9 (D) (9-1) won their district

6A at Houston W 21-14 (4-6)

6A at Arlington L 7-49 (D) (8-2)

5A Dyer County L 9-33 (8-2)

6A Bolton W 23-19 (D) (1-9)

4A at Ripley W 33-22 (3-7)

6A at Cordova L 7-20 (D) (4-6)

5A Craigmont W 23-20 (D) (5-5)

 

D2 (0-1)

4A (1-0)

5A (1-1)

6A (3-3)

 

Craigmont's Schedule

6A at Blount (AL) L 56-60 (9-1)

6A at Bolton W 55-10 (D) (1-9)

4A Kingsbury W 34-2 (3-7)

6A Cordova L 13-26 (D) (4-6)

4A Mitchell W 41-30 (7-3) Won their district

6A at Arlington L 20-34 (D) (8-2)

4A Raleigh Egypt W 56-15 (2-8)

6A at Millington L 30-42 (D) (9-1)

5A Memphis East W 49-48 (7-3)

5A at Bartlett L 20-23 (D) (5-5)

 

4A (3-0)

5A (1-1)

6A (1-4)

 

The second tie-breaker, "2-Teams on schedule that won 50% or more of their games." was the difference. http://www.tssaa.org/d1football/wildcard.cfm?class=5A

 

Bartlett's games against teams that won 50% of more?

 

Bartlett's Schedule

D2 at St. Benedict L 14-30 (6-3)

6A Millington L 7-9 (D) (9-1) won their district

6A at Arlington L 7-49 (D) (8-2)

5A Dyer County L 9-33 (8-2)

5A Craigmont W 23-20 (D) (5-5)

 

A D2 team, two 6A teams and 2 5A teams

 

Craigmont's?

 

6A at Blount (AL) L 56-60 (9-1)

4A Mitchell W 41-30 (7-3) Won their district

6A at Arlington L 20-34 (D) (8-2)

6A at Millington L 30-42 (D) (9-1)

5A Memphis East W 49-48 (7-3)

5A at Bartlett L 20-23 (D) (5-5)

 

3 6A

2 5A

1 4A

 

So if Bartlett had scheduled two 4A (or 3A or 2A or even 1A, this tiebreaker doesn't take into account classification) teams with (5-5) or better records they would have leap frogged Craigmont. Better question is how do you know if they are going to be .500 or better when you schedule them???

[dou]

How did Bartlett get left out and Craigmont get in?

 

Bartlett's Schedule

6A Memphis Central W 34-31 (3-7)

D2 at St. Benedict L 14-30 (6-3)

6A Millington L 7-9 (D) (9-1) won their district

6A at Houston W 21-14 (4-6)

6A at Arlington L 7-49 (D) (8-2)

5A Dyer County L 9-33 (8-2)

6A Bolton W 23-19 (D) (1-9)

4A at Ripley W 33-22 (3-7)

6A at Cordova L 7-20 (D) (4-6)

5A Craigmont W 23-20 (D) (5-5)

 

D2 (0-1)

4A (1-0)

5A (1-1)

6A (3-3)

 

Craigmont's Schedule

6A at Blount (AL) L 56-60 (9-1)

6A at Bolton W 55-10 (D) (1-9)

4A Kingsbury W 34-2 (3-7)

6A Cordova L 13-26 (D) (4-6)

4A Mitchell W 41-30 (7-3) Won their district

6A at Arlington L 20-34 (D) (8-2)

4A Raleigh Egypt W 56-15 (2-8)

6A at Millington L 30-42 (D) (9-1)

5A Memphis East W 49-48 (7-3)

5A at Bartlett L 20-23 (D) (5-5)

 

4A (3-0)

5A (1-1)

6A (1-4)

 

The second tie-breaker, "2-Teams on schedule that won 50% or more of their games." was the difference. http://www.tssaa.org/d1football/wildcard.cfm?class=5A

 

Bartlett's games against teams that won 50% of more?

 

Bartlett's Schedule

D2 at St. Benedict L 14-30 (6-3)

6A Millington L 7-9 (D) (9-1) won their district

6A at Arlington L 7-49 (D) (8-2)

5A Dyer County L 9-33 (8-2)

5A Craigmont W 23-20 (D) (5-5)

 

A D2 team, two 6A teams and 2 5A teams

 

Craigmont's?

 

6A at Blount (AL) L 56-60 (9-1)

4A Mitchell W 41-30 (7-3) Won their district

6A at Arlington L 20-34 (D) (8-2)

6A at Millington L 30-42 (D) (9-1)

5A Memphis East W 49-48 (7-3)

5A at Bartlett L 20-23 (D) (5-5)

 

3 6A

2 5A

1 4A

 

So if Bartlett had scheduled two 4A (or 3A or 2A or even 1A, this tiebreaker doesn't take into account classification) teams with (5-5) or better records they would have leap frogged Craigmont. Better question is how do you know if they are going to be .500 or better when you schedule them???

 

Very good point I guess you base it on history.

[SJohnston]

Craigmont getting in had alot to do with the W against East. Beating one of the tough teams on the schedule as opposed to losing to them makes quite a difference.

[davidlimbaugh]

Craigmont getting in had alot to do with the W against East. Beating one of the tough teams on the schedule as opposed to losing to them makes quite a difference.

 

If Houston and Cordova each had won one more game Bartlett makes the postseason over Craigmont. Craigmont could have lost to Memphis East but won against Cordova and still won the tiebreaker

Edited November 2, 2011 by davidlimbaugh

[ROCKYTOP3]

O.K. this is gonna take a minute and I am gonna give a break down of ALL the short comings of this playoff system by looking at the facts of 2 teams and 2 districts in the Chattanooga area. Now I am not for either team and could make a case for many teams including Cleveland (which could have made a run in the 5A playoffs I believe). Now the 2 teams that were at the cut off in 4A is Notre Dame and East Ridge. I know about every team in the East TN. Chatt. area so we will explore each district also. 1st....

 

EAST RIDGE (WINS) NOTRE DAME (WINS)

 

Walker Valley 0-10 Open 5A Mcminn Central 1-9 Open 3A

 

East Hamilton 6-4 (4A QUAD2 #1 SEED)District 4A Whitwell 1-9 Open 1A

 

Howard 0-10 District 3A Grace Bapt. Acad. 6-4 Open 1A

 

Hixson 4-6 District 4A Lookout Valley 7-3 Open 1A

 

Chatt Central 3-7 District 4A Taft Youth Center NOT EVEN TSSAA SCHOOL

 

Overall(13-36) Overall(15-25) Taft No Record

 

East Ridge has wins over 4 district opponents Notre Dame has 0 District wins

ER has 1 win over 5A OPEN team ND has 5 wins over OPEN teams 3-1A,1-3A,Taft

 

 

East Ridge (Losses) Notre Dame (Losses)

 

Boyd Buchanon 9-1 (2A Quad 2 #2) OPEN 2A Signal Mountain 8-2 District 4A

 

Ooltewah 7-3 (5A Quad 2 #4) OPEN 5A Bledsoe 9-1 (3A Quad 2 #1) District 3A

 

Red Bank 7-3 (4A Quad 2 #6) District 4A Sequatchie 7-3 (3A Quad 3 #4) District 3A

 

Brainerd 5-5 (4A Quad 2 #8) District 4A Grundy 6-4 (3A Quad 3 #7) District 3A

 

Tyner 5-5 (3A Quad 2 #5) District 3A Chatt. Christian 3-7 District 3A

 

Overall (33-17) Overall (33-17)

 

ER only lost to playoff teams ND lost to a non playoff team

 

ER played 5 4A teams going 3-2 ND played 1 4A team going 0-1

 

ER played 2 5A teams going 1-1 (both open games) ND played a youth center not in the TSSAA(open game)

 

ER played 2 3A teams going 1-1 (both district games) ND played 5 3A teams going 1-4 (only win open game)

 

ER played 1 2A team going 0-1 (top 2a team at the time) ND played 3 1A teams going 3-0 (all open games)

 

ER was 4-3 in their district (best in chatt. area 4A,3A) ND was 0-5 in a week 3A district

 

ER scheduled 2-5A,TOP 2A team for open dates ND scheduled 3-1A,worst 3A, and youth cntr. for open

 

ER played 7 teams 4A or above going 4-3 ND scheduled 1 4A team or above, DISTRICT LOST 58-15

 

ER lost by a total of 48 points in 5 games ND lost by a total of 87 points in 5 games

against better competition against weaker competition

 

TSSAA strength of team =66 TSSAA strength of team =50 (WHAT)

 

TSSAA schedule rank =78th TSSAA schedule strength =24th (SERIOUSLY)

 

ALSO, ER BEAT ND SOMETHING LIKE 48-6 IN THE SPRING.

 

OK, now the point to this is not to put down Notre Dame or anyone else other than the TSSAA. Above I have broken down the 2 teams that I knew would show the absolute obvious mistakes of the TSSAA. All the facts show that ER should be in the playoffs over ND I have left out all opinion in the debate until now just facts. Please reply, maybe I am wrong but after looking at the body of work ER has the better schedule yet TSSAA says overwhelmingly that ND has the 24th best schedule in the state and they only have 1 4A school on the schedule. There is 5-1A teams in the Chattanooga area, ND has scheduled 3 of them. The 2 they did not schedule was the 2 1A programs that play in the playoffs every year, South Pitt. and Copper Basin. Also on the schedule was Mcminn Central which in the last few years has been like 1-40 and A YOUTH CENTER that is not in the TSSAA. How does that even count for a win for 1 and for 2 how is that the 24th best schedule in the state? If every team on ND schedule played ER schedule then they would all be below .500 except for Signal. This is totally wrong and there are several teams across the state that have been done wrong by the TSSAA way of figuring out which team is deserving of going to the playoffs, the difference is that some of these teams could have won their QUAD. East Ridge and Cleveland are 2 of the teams left out that had a better than 50% chance of it.

 

Now, how could they tweak this to make it work better? Well using the same 2 teams and their districts lets take a look and see if the same could be said in your area. District 7 in 6A is the perfect example, they have 6 solid (all 6A) teams and realistically their district is a playoff game every Friday night. ER district is much the same with 6-4A teams and 2 3A teams. ND is also right there in CHATT. and its district 6 has 2-4A teams and 4-3A teams.

 

DISTRICT 7 DISTRICT 6

 

RED BANK 4A SIGNAL MOUNTAIN 4A

 

EAST HAMILTON 4A NOTRE DAME 4A

 

BRAINERD 4A SEQUATCHIE COUNTY 3A

 

HIXSON 4A GRUNDY COUNTY 3A

 

CHATT. CENTRAL 4A BLEDSOE COUNTY 3A

 

EAST RIDGE 4A CHATT.CHRISTIAN 3A

 

TYNER 3A SHOULD BE MOVED TO HERE SO THEY ARE ALL 3A SCHOOLS

 

HOWARD 3A SHOULD BE MOVED TO HERE SO THEY ARE ALL 3A SCHOOLS

 

NOTRE DAME AND SIGNAL MOUNTAIN should move to district 7 and make it all 4A schools and vise versa with Howard and TYNER to district 6 with all 3A schools. It is not fair to anyone in the state for a District to be empty with the same level of schools and them take a playoff spot away from a solid team in a district of equal status 3A VS. 4A. Is it fair that SIGNAL and NOTRE DAME are in a district with all 3A teams when they are competing for the 4A playoffs and should win most of the time, or that HOWARD and TYNER have to compete against larger schools to get a shot at the playoffs.. NO... If this were to happen then drive wise it would be easier and closer on ND AND SIGNAL and it would be the same for district 7 teams to travel to HOWARD AND TYNER even though I know they don't want to go there it is only the right thing to do. AFTERALL, you don't have 5 division 1 basketball teams in a conference with 3 division 2 teams and based on overall record depends on who goes to the dance do you? NO D1 may play D2 but they are not in conference with them. TO GET A TRUE PLAYOFF YOU HAVE TO GET THE DISTRICTS LINED UP RIGHT FIRST FROM 3A UP TO 6A, ESPECIALLY IN THE BIGGER CITIES.

 

Also, ER manned up and played a much tougher non-district schedule than ND, agreed?

 

ER ND

 

Ooltewah 5A Mcminn Central 3A

 

Boyd Buchanon 2A (perrenial powerhouse) Whitwell 1A

 

Walker Valley 5A Chatt. Grace Baptist Acad. 1A

 

Lookout Valley 1A

 

Taft Youth Center No Affiliation

 

Note to all coaches schedule all 1A as you can and you will still have a top 25 schedule because the TSSAA computing system is obviously not figuring out who the best teams are. ALSO, ALIGN THE DISTRICTS SO YOU CAN TELL WHO IS OF EQUAL TALENT. I ask you how would you align your district in your area?