Private School Recruiting

[Old Warhorse]

I couldn't agree more DD. I have been a part of both public and private. From bogus "educational custodianships" to "no child left behind" to wink wink nod nod "everybody doesn't have to pay the same tuition" stories. But getting to Iceman's comments, if a D1 private is doing as you say, I agree with Buck, get the info and turn them in. I would like to see all schools, public & private, clean up their acts and play by the rules. Humbly, without sounding too sanctimonious, I'm very proud of how my school (private) conducts their business regarding transfers and playing by the rules, and there are others out there (both public & private) that are running their programs the right way. But the pressure increases every year to get that "stud" athlete onto your team and to win.

 

The pressure is compounded when you play against teams that are in open zone school districts and have the benefits of being able to accept out of zone players (legal under current TSSAA rules) with the added benefit of not having a multiplier.

 

 

Who are you calling out here?

[FootballDad]

Who are you calling out here?

Ha. I'm not calling anyone out here, I've already done that in the past . Its well documented that me and my Blount County friends disagree on the fairness of the multiplier and how it is applied to D1 privates and not Open Zone schools. It has been an on going debate and I really can't add any new light to the subject so I guess I shouldn't bring it up again. I just happen to respectfully disagree with the TSSAA on the application of the multiplier. As noted in my previous comments and in all comments about this issue, the open zone schools are not "cheating", they are merely the beneficiaries of a flawed system in my opinion. One of the accusations thrown my way during previous discussions was that I was merely trying to get Alcoa moved up to 4A so CAK could have a better shot at winning a state championship. Well, we've got our gold ball and I still feel the same way that I did before. Likewise, my friends in Blount County still feel the way they do. Just a spirited disagreement amongst friends

[orangecrush]

Ha. I'm not calling anyone out here, I've already done that in the past . Its well documented that me and my Blount County friends disagree on the fairness of the multiplier and how it is applied to D1 privates and not Open Zone schools. It has been an on going debate and I really can't add any new light to the subject so I guess I shouldn't bring it up again. I just happen to respectfully disagree with the TSSAA on the application of the multiplier. As noted in my previous comments and in all comments about this issue, the open zone schools are not "cheating", they are merely the beneficiaries of a flawed system in my opinion. One of the accusations thrown my way during previous discussions was that I was merely trying to get Alcoa moved up to 4A so CAK could have a better shot at winning a state championship. Well, we've got our gold ball and I still feel the same way that I did before. Likewise, my friends in Blount County still feel the way they do. Just a spirited disagreement amongst friends

I couldn't agree more with your statement and belief that there is zero difference between a private school and an open zoned school. The biggest grip that I constantly hear public schools say is: "the privates can pull from anywhere and do not have zones." Schools such as Alcoa (Blount County)and South Pitt (Marion County) do not have these zones either. They are open zoned counties where anyone can cross county or state lines to attend and all they have to do is pay a fee (tuition). Yet, they do not have the multiplier that the private schools have.

[FootballDad]

I couldn't agree more with your statement and belief that there is zero difference between a private school and an open zoned school. The biggest grip that I constantly hear public schools say is: "the privates can pull from anywhere and do not have zones." Schools such as Alcoa (Blount County)and South Pitt (Marion County) do not have these zones either. They are open zoned counties where anyone can cross county or state lines to attend and all they have to do is pay a fee (tuition). Yet, they do not have the multiplier that the private schools have.

 

But I do understand the complexities involved in trying to sort this whole thing out and its doubtful that everyone will ever be satisfied, but it makes for good debates. Ultimately I believe most people just want to see equity in the application of the rules. Many of the open zone schools would still be very successful even if they were penalized with a multiplier like the D1's face. My only reason on "beating this dead horse" was that when some of the publics express the opinion that the privates should be sequestered into their own league, that conversation should include the open zone schools as well. But I don't think we really want a system that is divided 3 ways into D1's & OZ, D2's, and then publics. Or do we?

[orangecrush]

But I do understand the complexities involved in trying to sort this whole thing out and its doubtful that everyone will ever be satisfied, but it makes for good debates. Ultimately I believe most people just want to see equity in the application of the rules. Many of the open zone schools would still be very successful even if they were penalized with a multiplier like the D1's face. My only reason on "beating this dead horse" was that when some of the publics express the opinion that the privates should be sequestered into their own league, that conversation should include the open zone schools as well. But I don't think we really want a system that is divided 3 ways into D1's & OZ, D2's, and then publics. Or do we?

My personal belief is that there should not be a D1 or D2, but simply one division for everyone, which is the way it use to be. What many people don't realize is that it is not the TSSAA that determines zones. It is up to each individual county on how they want to set up their own boundaries or no boundaries. There are counties that have strict boundaries that are set up inside that don't allow crossing over the lines. There are counties that allow open movement inside of the county, but not from outside the county. Last, there are counties that are open zoned like Blount and Marion. This is a county school board issue and not a TSSAA issue, which creates this "unfair playing field" that so many complain about, but even if the privates were gone there would still not be a "fair playing field."

[rcombs]

Oh, look! Its this thread again...

 

[BROKEDOWN]

My personal belief is that there should not be a D1 or D2, but simply one division for everyone, which is the way it use to be. What many people don't realize is that it is not the TSSAA that determines zones. It is up to each individual county on how they want to set up their own boundaries or no boundaries. There are counties that have strict boundaries that are set up inside that don't allow crossing over the lines. There are counties that allow open movement inside of the county, but not from outside the county. Last, there are counties that are open zoned like Blount and Marion. This is a county school board issue and not a TSSAA issue, which creates this "unfair playing field" that so many complain about, but even if the privates were gone there would still not be a "fair playing field."

 

Oh well I can't resist. One thing to remember, when schools have to report their enrollment, rural schools have to report all the Hispanic population that is over taking those schools. Those kids do not play in the major sports (football, basketball, baseball etc.) but are counted in the enrollment. Some schools have about 35 to 40% Hispanic enrollment. Just curious, what do think the Hispanic enrollment is like in these private schools. Don't remember seeing that many at CAK or Catholic or Boyd Buchanan. Seems to me to be an unfair advantage even with the little multiplier those schools like to whine about.

Edited March 9, 2012 by BROKEDOWN

[orangecrush]

Oh well I can't resist. One thing to remember, when schools have to report their enrollment, rural schools have to report all the Hispanic population that is over taking those schools. Those kids do not play in the major sports (football, basketball, baseball etc.) but are counted in the enrollment. Some schools have about 35 to 40% Hispanic enrollment. Just curious, what do think the Hispanic enrollment is like in these private schools. Don't remember seeing that many at CAK or Catholic or Boyd Buchanan. Seems to me to be an unfair advantage even with the little multiplier those schools like to whine about.

You are totally missing my point. I am not talking about the evil private schools. I am talking about the "open enrollment" public schools. They have minorities of all kinds in their counties, but they can still take kids from outside of the county if they choose to do so. The biggest issue that most public supporters have is that the "evil privates" can take a kid from anywhere, which is exactly what an open enrolled public county can do. How does kicking out the privates equalize this problem?

[Warriors2011]

Oh well I can't resist. One thing to remember, when schools have to report their enrollment, rural schools have to report all the Hispanic population that is over taking those schools. Those kids do not play in the major sports (football, basketball, baseball etc.) but are counted in the enrollment. Some schools have about 35 to 40% Hispanic enrollment. Just curious, what do think the Hispanic enrollment is like in these private schools. Don't remember seeing that many at CAK or Catholic or Boyd Buchanan. Seems to me to be an unfair advantage even with the little multiplier those schools like to whine about.

 

How big would the multiplier need to be for you to not consider it "little?" My understanding is it is 1.8, which is almost 2x. I would not characterize almost doubling a school's enrollment as a "little" multiplier. In any event, I'm not whining about it; that's the rule and our school has lived with it without complaining.

 

If a rural school's hispanic population causes its enrollment numbers to increase, the school's coaches/parents/fans should tap into the athletic talent those students bring to the table. That would be more constructive than complaining about it. There are probably some very good athletes in that group of students.

 

As for the "recruiting" by private school allegations made by iceman in starting this thread, I would encourage him (or anyone who shares his beliefs about this issue) to name names and put some substance on the allegations. Otherwise, it just sounds like something to complain about rather than a real problem.

 

I know from experience that CAK does not provide financial aid or reduced tuition to any athlete on its teams, NOR even to any cheerleaders. Some students do receive need-based financial aid, but they are ineligible for the sports teams; I personally know people whose kids are affected by this (excluded from eligibility). If you believe you have information that CAK does give financial aid to athletes, I would certainly appreciate you sharing that information so we could get the proper officials involved and put a stop to it.

[Warriors2011]

Why are Division I private school office personnel allowed to contact our players and parents to recruit them to participate in athletics at a reduced tuition cost or even told "not to worry about the tuition"? I wonder how they get a specific list of athletes and phone numbers? Always thought this was restricted to the Division II schools in Tennessee. How far will coaches go for the "W"?

 

Division I private schools are not allowed to provide financial aid to athletes. If you have information that this it taking place, please name names and provide details on here so someone can initiate an investigation, or contact TSSAA compliance officials and register a complaint and they will investigate it. There is a lot of rumor and innuendo that floats around as to what schools are and are not doing. Most of it is just that--rumor and innuendo. However, if there is credible evidence that a Div. I private is providing financial aid to a student-athlete, the TSSAA will take it VERY seriously. If you doubt me, ask Grace Christian Academy in Knoxville.

[NoNameD]

Division I private schools are not allowed to provide financial aid to athletes. If you have information that this it taking place, please name names and provide details on here so someone can initiate an investigation, or contact TSSAA compliance officials and register a complaint and they will investigate it. There is a lot of rumor and innuendo that floats around as to what schools are and are not doing. Most of it is just that--rumor and innuendo. However, if there is credible evidence that a Div. I private is providing financial aid to a student-athlete, the TSSAA will take it VERY seriously. If you doubt me, ask Grace Christian Academy in Knoxville.

 

 

Why don't you CAK people just man up and play in the private division. I just think you are afraid of playing Webb. The travel issue is just weak today. Man UP!

[Rumble2010]

Why don't you CAK people just man up and play in the private division. I just think you are afraid of playing Webb. The travel issue is just weak today. Man UP!

 

No dog in this hunt but it is probably because they enjoy beating up on public schools and having you whine about it on this board.