State Tournament Referees

[wrestlingdad64]

I would like to pose two questions for debate. The kids that have qualifed for the State Tournament have worked very hard to get there, and deserve a fair chance to move forward in the tournament.

 

1) In a close match at the State Tournament, should a referee's subjective call determine the outcome of a match?

 

2) Why are there two referee's on the mat at the same time, if second ref never gets involved?

[Newestguy]

With the exception of Tucker Russo's semifinal match I actually thought the referees did a very good job this weekend.

[memphissoccerpimp22]

I bring up the second referee question all the time...

[Xander Zone]

The second is there to give their input on a subjective or questionable call...

The head referee is in charge of the match...

[marshiebaby]

I have a comment my kid not at all affected by referee calls at state. However, I watched many many matches and I thought many times about kids being called out during action that would result in points and the kids actually came down in bounds, I know kid safety is first however it was often. Also seems a guillotine along with some other standard legs applications have pretty much been taken out of wrestling here by potentially dangerous... Not a complaint just observation. Glad my kid is not a legs wrestler especially after seeing so many normal moves stopped.

[wrestledad34]

Not knowing the history of wrestling, my observation watching these stalling calls leaves me very frustrated as a spectator. There appears to be a wide, subjective interpretation of stalling. And from my view, I see referees determining the outcome of matches more than they should. My perception is that if the kids are not wrestling how a particular ref thinks they should be wrestling (the ref's style of wrestling) then the stalling calls start emerging.

 

It is the wide expanse of the stalling calls that leaves me perplexed. For example, how can it be stalling when two kids are stuck. One trying not to allow an escape, the other can't figure out how to escape (Shouldn't that be a stalemate?). Then there is the case of one kid trying to get something done getting called, while the other is fixing his hair cap at every whistle and nothing is done about this "hair cap" stalling. Additionally, what advantage does a kid have for stalling when he is being dominated. Why are we calling stalling on a kid who just can't get out. If a kid doesn't have enough skill, then that is his lesson to learn from the match he just lost. Of course, several examples exist.

 

Three points:

 

-I do think they did a pretty good job at state. I heard the head ref's got involved when a stalling parade started.

 

-I understand that sometimes, bad calls happen. I tell my son that he has to beat the ref and the other kid. I just don't want the ref to be that big of an opponent.

 

-I would love to hear how stalling was managed, 10, 20, or 30 years ago.

[WRESTLERX]

Stalling- the offensive wrestler should always be working for a fall or scoring- if he is not- he is stalling, sitting on the hips is stalling- repeating the same move over and over that isn't working can be stalling. Defensive wrestler should always be working to escape or reverse- if all he is doing is blocking he is stalling- neutral should always be working for the takedown.

 

DO NOT compare this to college- it is totally a different strategy- they encourage stalling with riding time.

Every year there is complaining about the referees, and I will predict there will be the same for the next 20 years.

 

STOP CRYING- coach your son to win and win so convincingly that the ref maked no difference.

I wrestled 30 years ago and remember our 155lber lose from stalling, 1,1,2 go sit down

[MB2112]

I thought most of the refs did a great job this weekend. Stalling will always be a touchy call because of its subjectiveness, there is really no set time of non-action for it to be called. The second ref also makes sure the table gets the correct scores thrown up from the head ref. Danny Gilbert was a ref during one of my wrestlers matches that had a lot of rapid scoring and he kneeled between the mat and table relaying the scoring as it occured to make sure both wrestlers received all their points. I made sure to find him and compliment him, since all they hear all year is how terrible they are.

[wrestledad34]

Wrestler X, you obviously don't know how to read for context or tone...

 

So to help any other flamers, let me say this. The ref's overall do a great job. I would not want your job and I admire you for getting on the mat week after week and taking the abuse that you do. Thanks for your service. If you are a ref and feel that I threw out a broad net, let me apologize. That was not my intent. Note in my few previous posts I stand up for the ref's. Please reread my post. Also know that when I think a bad call goes in my team's favor, it is noted.

 

However, especially in high school, there is a broad range of wrestling skills. A more experienced wrestler will beat the less experience wrestler every time. The ref does not need to get involved. The lesser experienced wrestler will learn that he must be aggressive. If you are not aggressive and attempting moves, you cannot win.

 

When two equally skilled wrestlers are going at it, there can be a tendency for one or both wrestlers to become defensive. Whoever risks the move usually wins. And sometimes that move is executed incorrectly and the original defensive wrestler can take advantage of that mistake. A wrestler should not be forced to give up a position. The ref should not be able to determine the outcome of a stalled match. The match in most cases will solve itself.

 

BTW, my son was not affected by a bad call at Region or State and finished well. This is an observation and recommendation about stalling calls. Again, good job at state by the ref's.

[WRESTLERX]

Dad

go to TSSAA and sign up, they need ref's like you

[wrestlingdad64]

My original questions were not meant to criticize, but to start a conversation. I believe close matches should be won by the best wrestler and not be decided by a subjective call. I was cureous if others feel the same way. Someone said earlier that the 2nd ref was there to give input on a questionable call. I did not see that involvement at all.

[HSDAD]

They are the best the state has to offer. This banter will not

alter the calls made over the weekend or make lil Johnny feel

better about the outcome of his match. If you know any qualified

refs willing to make the calls, I'm sure the state would be willing

to add him to their list.