Suggested seeding principles

[silverpie]

For a 32 draw, a maximum of eight wrestlers may be seeded under USAW rules. I think that's a sensible limit here too.

 

Here are some principles I would propose:

• No wrestler may be seeded ahead of a higher finisher from his own region. (Region finish should still be the first rule, in other words.)
  
• Each region's four qualifiers must be placed in separate quadrants.
  
• Each region's top two finishers must be placed in opposite halves. (It is preferable that 1 and 4 be in the same half, but sometimes may have to be 1 and 3--but never 1 and 2.)
  
• No two "high" wrestlers (seeds and region winners) may meet in the first round.
  

Given those rules, I think I can come up with an algorithm to set a sensible bracket.

[rlwest40]

Current season head-to-head results is vital seed criteria with the uneven regions IMO. Along with region placement and previous year's state placement.

 

Example:

Wrestler A - Region champ and first year state qualifier (from weaker region)

Wrestler B - 2nd through 4th place at Region (stronger region) and returning state placer and/or qualifier with current season head-to-head win over Wrestler A

 

If you seed only the 8 region champs without consideration to head-to-head results with other state qualifiers and previous year's state placement then it still does not separate the best wrestlers at state because the regions have the potential to be so lop-sided. Wrestler B clearly deserves the higher seed in this scenerio and this could be the difference in which wrestler makes the finals. In other words, the best 2 wrestlers in the state could come from the same region and end up on the same side of the bracket at state. I think proper state seeding can compensate for the uneven playing field caused by the region alignments without having to result to a true 2nd state tournament.

[kilroyO]

Current season head-to-head results is vital seed criteria with the uneven regions IMO. Along with region placement and previous year's state placement.

 

Example:

Wrestler A - Region champ and first year state qualifier (from weaker region)

Wrestler B - 2nd through 4th place at Region (stronger region) and returning state placer and/or qualifier with current season head-to-head win over Wrestler A

 

If you seed only the 8 region champs without consideration to head-to-head results with other state qualifiers and previous year's state placement then it still does not separate the best wrestlers at state because the regions have the potential to be so lop-sided. Wrestler B clearly deserves the higher seed in this scenerio and this could be the difference in which wrestler makes the finals. In other words, the best 2 wrestlers in the state could come from the same region and end up on the same side of the bracket at state. I think proper state seeding can compensate for the uneven playing field caused by the region alignments without having to result to a true 2nd state tournament.

"head-to-head results is vital seed criteria". Great point! Some of these issues can be solved via in-state tourneys in December or whenever. ie Fandetti, Bradley, Soddy, etc

[silverpie]

Current season head-to-head results is vital seed criteria with the uneven regions IMO. Along with region placement and previous year's state placement.

 

Example:

Wrestler A - Region champ and first year state qualifier (from weaker region)

Wrestler B - 2nd through 4th place at Region (stronger region) and returning state placer and/or qualifier with current season head-to-head win over Wrestler A

 

Wrestler B clearly deserves the higher seed in this scenerio and this could be the difference in which wrestler makes the finals. In other words, the best 2 wrestlers in the state could come from the same region and end up on the same side of the bracket at state.

 

My suggestions accommodate that. B could well be seeded above A in this scenario--just not above the winner of his own region. And if the two best in a region both made the region final, they'll definitely be separated--even if not, they ought to finish 1-3 and will usually be separated.

[CoachBray]

Hamm and myself have offered numerous times to help seed/separate the state tournament to no avail. A couple of years ago, we had the Soddy and Bradley hwts meeting in the 2nd round. That's an injustice to those kids! Crawford should have never met Cyree in the 2nd round this year. If they can seed a 64 man basketball tournament, surely we can at least separate kids that accomplished a lot during the season.

[Sommers]

Current season head-to-head results is vital seed criteria with the uneven regions IMO. Along with region placement and previous year's state placement.

 

Example:

Wrestler A - Region champ and first year state qualifier (from weaker region)

Wrestler B - 2nd through 4th place at Region (stronger region) and returning state placer and/or qualifier with current season head-to-head win over Wrestler A

 

If you seed only the 8 region champs without consideration to head-to-head results with other state qualifiers and previous year's state placement then it still does not separate the best wrestlers at state because the regions have the potential to be so lop-sided. Wrestler B clearly deserves the higher seed in this scenerio and this could be the difference in which wrestler makes the finals. In other words, the best 2 wrestlers in the state could come from the same region and end up on the same side of the bracket at state. I think proper state seeding can compensate for the uneven playing field caused by the region alignments without having to result to a true 2nd state tournament.

valid points & suggestions... It would have been interesting to see how they would have seeded mattock & Solomon... I suppose region champ a higher seed if that match up would have occurred?

[Sommers]

...Flukey pins could make seeding challenging IMO.

[rlwest40]

Hamm and myself have offered numerous times to help seed/separate the state tournament to no avail. A couple of years ago, we had the Soddy and Bradley hwts meeting in the 2nd round. That's an injustice to those kids! Crawford should have never met Cyree in the 2nd round this year. If they can seed a 64 man basketball tournament, surely we can at least separate kids that accomplished a lot during the season.

 

I agree with you 100%

[silverpie]

Just to clarify my intentions, I don't mean to suggest that what I put forth was complete--far from it. Just that a system with these minimum criteria, however one wishes to complete the details, works. (And it turns out there's one case where the constraints can't hold up--warning, peek into sausage factory ahead.) I was indeed hoping to see some ideas about how to go about filling in the details.

 

 

 

Specifically, if one of the top two seeds is from a region with 3 wrestlers seeded, the other is the only seed from his region, and the four remaining seeds are either 2-2 or all from one region, then the high seed out of the 3 must go in the same half with his region's 3rd finisher.

[rlwest40]

So why has there been a resistance to properly seed the high school state championship?

[Franknbeans]

Why could'nt you have a representive from each Region meet in Nashville the Sunday after the Regions were completed and seed from there.

[sweeptheleg]

Why is there any resistance to doing what's best for the sport? Seeding, the event location , awards and medals, showcasing and boosting the excitement of the finals etc.. all could use improvement. There have been many suggestions and ideas but nothing ever changes. It's because the same people have been doing it forever and are not open to the idea of improvement. It's about how much money you can make in as little time as possible with as little work as possible. If the powers that be would attend one Georgia state championship they would see how bad our state is lacking.