The State of Baseball

[cocheese]

I agree entirely with this about having a kid that enjoys playing but would rather not give up his entire weekend that he uses to do "other kid stuff" like scouts, swimming, bike riding....etc. However, the problem is in the statement made earlier about travel teams being put together at an early age....then many of those players are the ones that play together on the H.S. team. More often than not it's their chemistry w/ each other that makes them look better or more comfortable with each other. It helps if you know where (fielding drills) other gut is going to be, what they are good at and what they are not good at....it's a trust issue. You bring a new kid into that....they won't look as good or as comfortable. Most coaches don't know how to pick up on that, especially if you are one of those MS coaches that hold one-day tryouts that last about 2 hours. The kids that have been playing together for years SHOULD look better playing together. Then again, they could and often do grow to not like one another as much.

 

 

I agree, completely, but what I'm taking issue with is those kids not fortunate enough to be able to afford travel ball. I have seen some teams take on a kid who comes from a home in poverty, but not often. I don't want to see our game exclude kids because of their parents income. I feel this is where we are headed. It may just be part of life, and life ain't fair and baseball surely isn't, but is there an answer to the problem. Travel ball is a loose term used, there's no real leagues and very little oversight. I've never heard of a little league holding a draft and then some kids being left out. I've always known rec. ball where everyone is on a team and everyone plays an inning and bats. I happen to like that rule, well kind of, but not always. Travel ball is baseball, for now, and probably will continue to be, but how do we make it work for kids from all walks of life???

[EyesWideOpen]

I agree, completely, but what I'm taking issue with is those kids not fortunate enough to be able to afford travel ball. I have seen some teams take on a kid who comes from a home in poverty, but not often. I don't want to see our game exclude kids because of their parents income. I feel this is where we are headed. It may just be part of life, and life ain't fair and baseball surely isn't, but is there an answer to the problem. Travel ball is a loose term used, there's no real leagues and very little oversight. I've never heard of a little league holding a draft and then some kids being left out. I've always known rec. ball where everyone is on a team and everyone plays an inning and bats. I happen to like that rule, well kind of, but not always. Travel ball is baseball, for now, and probably will continue to be, but how do we make it work for kids from all walks of life???

[EyesWideOpen]

No doubt! I have lost count on the number of kids that had to drop the travel/select ball due to burn out or injuries. I had 8 brothers and sisters growing up...you think my parents would have gone for the costs? There are coaches (MS/HS) out there that can identify "potential" of the kid so they are looking 3 maybe 4 years down the road with him. He get selected for the MS or JV team and the parents whose kid just got cut are miffed because the spent $$$ on their kid through these select/travel teams. Now, that IS truly funny when it happens and it happens often!

[ksgovols]

Agreed cocheese. And the better rec league teams are around the less affluent areas. There are some programs, RBI Baseball for one, that trys to get baseball reintroduced into the inner city. It's a different time and there are multiple reasons why travel ball is overtaking rec leagues in some areas. That being said, I do think there's a happy medium. Open drafts every year and splitting up teams every year isn't favorable but neither is stacking a team and having them whitewash everybody. Who's getting better there? The best model that I've seen is a Cal Ripken league around here where they have 3 divisions for each age group. The top division you can bring in your own team and play teams of equitable talent, the middle range can be your own team or a drafted team and they are a notch below in the talent pool and the lower division is the developmental divison. After half the season, the top tier teams that aren't competitive get some games with the division below and the lower divisions that are winning every game get a shot at the division above. Play the 15-20 game regular season and then select all star teams that play in a minimum of 3 tournaments. By the middle of July, you're getting 30-40 games in. There's organization to it and the coaches and parents are ultimately under the direction of a board of directors. Wildcat baseball doesn't have that. Arms are overused, no recourse for hot headed coaches and out of control fans, which if you've ever been a tournament director for a travel ball tourney, you've seen at one time or the other. I think Little League was hurt by everybody plays, everybody bats rules. I think travel ball limits the opportunities for late bloomers and there are win at all cost coaches and parents that are attracted to that like a bug to a light. Ultimately is harder to hit a fastball from 46 ft with a 2 1/4" bat than when you move the pitcher back and make the barrel bigger, but I think kids today are too big to be playing on 60 ft bases and 46 ft mounds when there are 6 ft, 180 # 11 and 12 year olds hitting shots that get by gloves before they move. There's a better way. I'd rather see LL and Cal Ripken and Dixie Youth come up with it than to send money to USSSA to enter a roster and get in tournaments and see what happens. It becomes about money pretty quickly.

Edited June 5, 2013 by ksgovols

[davidlimbaugh]

When I played little league, there was a 'major league' and a 'minor league'. If you were good enough, from 10-12, to play for a 'major league' team you did. If you were not, you played on a 'minor league' team. I was fortunate enough to play for the same 'major league' team for all three years and make the all-star team when I was 11 and 12. And we were pretty darn good. I had friends in the neighborhood who played for some of the 'minor league' teams. We didn't think nothing of it. - we still played together on days and nights we didn't have league games and the rest of the year. There was no 'I am so much better than you' or any of that stuff. We were just kids in the neighborhood playing ball. We actually went to watch each others games.

 

I think each kid (and parent) are different. I would have loved to play travel ball and play doubleheaders every day from March to August if I could. But I grew up on a ball field. My daddy played independent ball until I was 9 or so. I ate, slept and dreamed baseball. I still do it to this day. If there is a game going on somewhere or on the TV I am there. But I am probably the exception. Most of the kids I grew up also liked to fish, hunt, or go to the movies among other things.

[ksgovols]

When I played little league, there was a 'major league' and a 'minor league'. If you were good enough, from 10-12, to play for a 'major league' team you did. If you were not, you played on a 'minor league' team. I was fortunate enough to play for the same 'major league' team for all three years and make the all-star team when I was 11 and 12. And we were pretty darn good. I had friends in the neighborhood who played for some of the 'minor league' teams. We didn't think nothing of it. - we still played together on days and nights we didn't have league games and the rest of the year. There was no 'I am so much better than you' or any of that stuff. We were just kids in the neighborhood playing ball. We actually went to watch each others games.

 

I think each kid (and parent) are different. I would have loved to play travel ball and play doubleheaders every day from March to August if I could. But I grew up on a ball field. My daddy played independent ball until I was 9 or so. I ate, slept and dreamed baseball. I still do it to this day. If there is a game going on somewhere or on the TV I am there. But I am probably the exception. Most of the kids I grew up also liked to fish, hunt, or go to the movies among other things.

No, we were the rule in those days. My LL all star coach had been in the league for 25 years and then followed our group up through Babe Ruth and Legion ball. He gave it up when equal playing time became the norm. Our LL teams practiced every single day, had tryouts and cuts and stayed together until we were 12. I found an old schedule. We started on May 9th after practicing most of April and half of March, played 2 games a week until July 4th and then went to all stars. You earned your stripes on the practice field and were rewarded with P.T. in games. Some of that needs to come back for sure but I'm not convinced that 8U and 9U travel ball is the answer either. There was no T-ball and we couldn't start minor league until we were 8. I played organized baseball from 9-18 including a 100+ game season between my Jr. year and American Legion. When the invited walk on letters came, I was done. I hadn't known anything but baseball games all summer for more than half of my life at that time. I can't imagine that being extended to 4 and 5 year olds and keeping the interest level that high for that long.

[davidlimbaugh]

ksgovols - exactly! In my Little League, it was a 'keeper' league with no draft at all. Every team had a sponsor and a head coach and we actually recruited other kids to be on our team over another one I played on a team that lost 3 games in 3 years to a team that also lost 3 games in 3 years because we split with them. The all-star team each year was mostly them and us. But every team but a couple was competive and we had some fun games. If memory serves we played 2 games a week for about 7 weeks, then a tournament and then all-star games. And on days, including Saturdays, we didn't have a game we practiced - our team had its own practice field. And when we weren't playing a league game or practicing, all of us in the neighborhood were still playing somewhere with each other. What was a pitch count? LOL!!! I remember how if we didn't have enough to field a full team the pitcher was the first baseman on the mound. Or we moved in first and third to make the field 'skinnier'. My own dad did not let me play organized baseball until I was 10. He played with all of us kids in the neighborhood and gave everyone tips every once in a while but mostly just played with us. I miss those days...

 

 

I am second from the right on the back row. The bottom right is a young lefty named Jimmy Key. He was pretty good...

 

Our all-star team was loaded - almost made it to Williamsport.... and as 13 year olds won the 13-year old Babe Ruth World Series, going undefeated for the entire summer....

 

 

The core of this team became Butler High School's 1979 undefeated state championship team.

 

And I never wanted to hang up the cleats:

 

 

Edited June 5, 2013 by davidlimbaugh

[ksgovols]

Good stuff! My 12 yr old team picture is hanging on my office wall. Some of those guys are still my best friends today. Stood up in each others weddings. I would say, 90% of my close friends I met on a ball diamond. We lived in the country and there were 6 boys within walking distance of our front pasture where we kept the field mowed down with an old Snapper and played a game with a tennis ball and full speed pitching and our game bats where you had to pull it to count. No oppos. We'd play a game batting right handed and then we'd play one batting left handed. Into the dirt road was a homer, trees could keep the ball in play. Then play real baseball that night. When we ran out of tennis balls, we'd make duct tape balls. My grandfather was my bat supplier. He told me if I kept swinging a wood bat he'd buy my a new one every time I broke one. I swung a Jackie Robinson 33 because I liked the fat handle until I was 17 and finally switched over to a Thumper.

Edited June 5, 2013 by ksgovols

[FightinIllini]

I heard John Smoltz speak a few months ago. He said he doesn't know any major league players that played travel ball as kids. He said he would not let his kids do it. He was definitely against young kids doing it.

 

If a player is good enough, colleges & scouts will find them. Many kids getting burned out way before high school.

 

then he has not heard of R.A Dickey or David Price, or Rex Brothers .... all played high level travel ball

[davidlimbaugh]

Good stuff! My 12 yr old team picture is hanging on my office wall. Some of those guys are still my best friends today. Stood up in each others weddings. I would say, 90% of my close friends I met on a ball diamond. We lived in the country and there were 6 boys within walking distance of our front pasture where we kept the field mowed down with an old Snapper and played a game with a tennis ball and full speed pitching and our game bats where you had to pull it to count. No oppos. We'd play a game batting right handed and then we'd play one batting left handed. Into the dirt road was a homer, trees could keep the ball in play. Then play real baseball that night. When we ran out of tennis balls, we'd make duct tape balls. My grandfather was my bat supplier. He told me if I kept swinging a wood bat he'd buy my a new one every time I broke one. I swung a Jackie Robinson 33 because I liked the fat handle until I was 17 and finally switched over to a Thumper.

 

Good stuff back at ya! We had real baseballs we shagged from Huntsville Park during high school or Independent's games. Our bats had furniture tacks and electrician's tape holding them together. You will find a lot of the kids on those picture as friends on my facebook page We made up lineups out of our baseball cards and pretended to be them, either left or right handed and tried to mimic their stances - and this was before ESPN and the Internet, when we got the one NBC game of the week and all the Cubs and Braves on WGN and TBS I think if we both did the math we played over a thousand games and never bought a tank of gas - agreed?

[FightinIllini]

My take on it. I agree due to the rising cost of travel ball, some players cannot afford to play travel ball and it does limit their exposure... but does not kill it entirely. Life's not fair..... so some lose out due to not having parents who can afford it.... it's like that in all areas of life..

 

 

When my sons first started playing travel ball , only the very best players played. Now travel ball is watered down especially in the 12-16 years ages.

 

The problem is mostly due to parents not realizing their own sons ability and athletism . Parents feel that if my 5'10 160 pounder make a travel team that they are going to colege to play baseball...... not the case.... but a fool and their money will soon part.

 

So when there is a need for players to play travel ball, there will be travel teams willing to take them, tell them what they want to hear.

 

Parents think they can "buy" their way on to a college team just does not happen.... If you are 6'4 190 throwing 90 in high school "they" will find you.... if you are a 5'10 160 throwing 80 ...well you know

Edited June 5, 2013 by FightinIllini

[ksgovols]

It's the chase that gets them, not the end result. I've made more than a few people mad with my 'half scholarship to Jr. college' comment, but that's the case a lot of the time. Most kids get fractions of scholarships, not full rides. It was my good fortune to play with a couple of kids whose Dads were college baseball coaches. They saw my team play from Little League through High School and legion ball. So............we were seen. A small handful got scholarships of any kind. A smaller handful got drafted. We could ask them at any time where we stood, what we needed to work on and get an honest answer. And the college coaches kids were playing rec ball too. That's what we played. I'll say this. If you're not going to enjoy your kids baseball career, or athletic career for that matter, unless he's signing an athletic scholarship, you're missing the point and the fun. Parents get way too wound up about these sort of things.