Sullivan South - Sullivan Co. Football

[BatmanDB]

It's not the coaching.  It's the talent and culture.  There are trends in football that've hurt local teams that no coach can work around.  The demographics and the culture in a lot of the school district administrations is bad for competing with the elite teams in our state.

 

We don't have the speed in this area that the schools west of Morristown have.  The demographics are all wrong for it.  For a long time, we competed in the old I formation, power football days, which only required 2 or 3 athletes on each side of the ball... but now everyone wants to spread the field and get 5-6 athletes out there in space.

 

The thing is that spread offenses are now really AMPLIFIERS for great talent, not EQUALIZERS, because now defenses have adapted to contain the schemes.  The teams here will beat up on each other with spread offenses like the colleges run on TV... but when the Knoxville, Maryville, or even Morristown and Sevier County schools come calling, the local athletes just get outclassed in the spread.  Those western schools have better athletes to match up on both sides and it just doesn't end well.

 

That's why the most successful programs from our area lately have been the smaller schools.  There's less speed at those schools for the locals to run into until you get to about the 3rd or 4th round of the playoffs, and most are lucky to have 1-2 really good athletes.  If you get 3 or more, like Hampton had last year, you can compete with just about anybody in the state.

 

At the upper levels, though, the teams farther west will have 5-6 guys with 4.6 speed or better and some backups who can run like that, too.  The bigger NE TN schools might still only have 3 or 4 on the whole team.

 

Robbie Norris has had a great strategy by lining up and running the Double Wing at North.  It's worked well and has led to some nice playoff runs, despite them having much less raw talent to work with than most schools.  However, the Double Wing is weird and not much fun to watch, so if he wants to bring that to the new school, those Colonial Heights parents who think their kid is the next Curt Phillips are going to balk.

OK coach it's the talent.Right after you get past Greeneville the talent drops to hail.Those players in the NFL didn't really come from Kingsport or Elizabethton or JC- Franklin that just retired ..Those players at UT,WF and other schools were not from this area.That player that ran down and knocked the ball loose against A&M last night didn't really have speed,it was fake.Explain then how Norris has a strategy and nobody else can use it with all these poor athletes.No over paid  coach can explain why Greeneville with 8 or 9 hundred  can line up with schools two and three times their size and it not be either they have dam good athletes or a dam good coach that is worth his money and does his job right.I'll say it's both and it could be done at other schools just the same.

[lawnman]

The Fact that Greeneville High school is the same demographics would make your argument invalid. They run the spread and train on speed training with Coach Lyons. (He even hold classes for other sports also). There was a reason that in 06 Greeneville was 4-6 and in 07 went 10-3 and went to the quarter finals. New coach, new work ethic, new expectations but the same players from the 06 to 07 team

Amen!!

[jhilts]

The vast majority of teams in most years have 3 or 4 really talented players and athletes. Some coaches depend on these few players to give them wins. They focus on them, they dote on them and game plan on these chosen ones. They are picked early and like clockwork every year. Makes life easy and it makes the coaches look like grid iron geniouses. And then the well dries up or you get a couple of injuries. It all goes to hades.

 

The dominant teams coach Up the Whole Team. It takes a lot of time and effort. It is not for the lazy or complacent. But if you take the time, you will find those gems in the rough, keep the potentially talented on the team and increase overall morale. Otherwise.....

Edited October 9, 2016 by jhilts

[BatmanDB]

The Fact that Greeneville High school is the same demographics would make your argument invalid. They run the spread and train on speed training with Coach Lyons. (He even hold classes for other sports also). There was a reason that in 06 Greeneville was 4-6 and in 07 went 10-3 and went to the quarter finals. New coach, new work ethic, new expectations but the same players from the 06 to 07 team

That's the way it's done.Long story here.Hope it's the same coach.I talked to a coach Lyons when one of my boys was at Robinson and wrestled against Greeneville's middle school.I told him how I used to work with his grand mother years ago and what a great person she was.His wrestler was only in the 7th and my boy was in the 8th and much a man already,never getting beat and named the regions best big wrestler.The next time we wrestled I believe he was the coach that  told me  he tried to get his wrestler to go up a class and not go against my son because he didn't want it to to hurt his confidence.The young man wouldn't hear of it and wanted to go against  my boy.After the match,the young man came into the stands and shook hands with my boy and said good match and shook my hand as well.He even told my boy that it wasn't his fault that his nose would bleed sometimes.I thought,my gosh what a great kid this is.We got to talking and he said his last name.I said my mother had the same and when I talked to his dad,sure enough we are distant cousins.Long story but this is the kind of great character coach Lyons and atleast one of the Devils has.

[Swipes]

That's the way it's done.Long story here.Hope it's the same coach.I talked to a coach Lyons when one of my boys was at Robinson and wrestled against Greeneville's middle school.I told him how I used to work with his grand mother years ago and what a great person she was.His wrestler was only in the 7th and my boy was in the 8th and much a man already,never getting beat and named the regions best big wrestler.The next time we wrestled I believe he was the coach that  told me  he tried to get his wrestler to go up a class and not go against my son because he didn't want it to to hurt his confidence.The young man wouldn't hear of it and wanted to go against  my boy.After the match,the young man came into the stands and shook hands with my boy and said good match and shook my hand as well.He even told my boy that it wasn't his fault that his nose would bleed sometimes.I thought,my gosh what a great kid this is.We got to talking and he said his last name.I said my mother had the same and when I talked to his dad,sure enough we are distant cousins.Long story but this is the kind of great character coach Lyons and atleast one of the Devils has.

I couldn't tell you if that is the same Coach Lyons but there are alot of coaches in Greeneville that put the kids in front of themself. Coach Brigham Lyons was an all state running back in 1989 and 1990 for the Devils and went on to MTSU. There are alot of former players that coach for the Devils

[BatmanDB]

I couldn't tell you if that is the same Coach Lyons but there are alot of coaches in Greeneville that put the kids in front of themself. Coach Brigham Lyons was an all state running back in 1989 and 1990 for the Devils and went on to MTSU. There are alot of former players that coach for the Devils

yep

[formerblazer]

OK coach it's the talent.Right after you get past Greeneville the talent drops to hail.Those players in the NFL didn't really come from Kingsport or Elizabethton or JC- Franklin that just retired ..Those players at UT,WF and other schools were not from this area.That player that ran down and knocked the ball loose against A&M last night didn't really have speed,it was fake.Explain then how Norris has a strategy and nobody else can use it with all these poor athletes.No over paid  coach can explain why Greeneville with 8 or 9 hundred  can line up with schools two and three times their size and it not be either they have dam good athletes or a dam good coach that is worth his money and does his job right.I'll say it's both and it could be done at other schools just the same.

 

Aside from three years of amazing Greeneville play, they haven't gotten past Knoxville since that time.  Have they had the dominate team in our area? Yes, absolutely.  Are they well coached?  Yes absolutely.  Do they have great athletes?  Again, absolutely.  But you pretty much have a Greeneville talent and coaching pool which has been doing what DB has done forever.  Dominate the area, get to the playoffs looking great, but all great teams end when they go past Morristown. Do I think they can bounce back?  Maybe, but it is going to take Catholic and Fulton getting out of 4A.  Catholic is probably going to stay a 4A school, so Greeneville has its own Maryville and Alcoa like everyone else.  5a?  No one could play with Greeneville in 5A.

[BatmanDB]

Aside from three years of amazing Greeneville play, they haven't gotten past Knoxville since that time.  Have they had the dominate team in our area? Yes, absolutely.  Are they well coached?  Yes absolutely.  Do they have great athletes?  Again, absolutely.  But you pretty much have a Greeneville talent and coaching pool which has been doing what DB has done forever.  Dominate the area, get to the playoffs looking great, but all great teams end when they go past Morristown. Do I think they can bounce back?  Maybe, but it is going to take Catholic and Fulton getting out of 4A.  Catholic is probably going to stay a 4A school, so Greeneville has its own Maryville and Alcoa like everyone else.  5a?  No one could play with Greeneville in 5A.

Catholic is one of the three best teams in the state no doubt at any class.That's part of it and you compete as Greeneville did last year,sometimes it goes your way. It's way better for it to go your way twice and nearly three times in the last 7 years then be where a lot of schools are setting today .Greeneville could compete in any class and that's the bottom line.Could they win it all in 3A ,5A,6A, well it would depend on the year and who is hot,A tall order for most teams outside of 6A ,Alcoa and a few more teams..That's not a thought for most schools.When you win 0-5 games a year,there needs to be a change somewhere.Greeneville made that change .

[Swipes]

Aside from three years of amazing Greeneville play, they haven't gotten past Knoxville since that time. Have they had the dominate team in our area? Yes, absolutely. Are they well coached? Yes absolutely. Do they have great athletes? Again, absolutely. But you pretty much have a Greeneville talent and coaching pool which has been doing what DB has done forever. Dominate the area, get to the playoffs looking great, but all great teams end when they go past Morristown. Do I think they can bounce back? Maybe, but it is going to take Catholic and Fulton getting out of 4A. Catholic is probably going to stay a 4A school, so Greeneville has its own Maryville and Alcoa like everyone else. 5a? No one could play with Greeneville in 5A.

They went into the 4th tied 21 to 21 against Catholic last year and ended up losing by 14 after Dabbs went down with an injury. The comment about Fulton and Catholic moving out of 4A for Greeneville to move farther in the playoffs the same way is laughable. 4a isn't dominated like it use to be when Maryville was there. The first 3 years Greeneville made it to the championship game they had to go through Fulton twice and shut them out twice. The next 3 years was Fulton years loaded with athletes and ranked as high as 25 in nation during that time frame and beat Greeneville and Catholic. Catholic won it all last year and loaded with D1 talent this year. Greeneville will be the only one to challenge them this year. 4a has been dominated by quad 1 since 2010 with 3 different programs earning state championships. So you saying Greeneville has there own Maryville or Alcoa in 4a is so far off and insulting to a program like Maryville or Alcoa

Edited October 9, 2016 by Swipes

[Gunner0331]

I never have coached a football team, but I do have experience training men how to be combat ready. Somebody tell me if I am the only one that sees a lack of speed training for all players on a football team with our local teams.

[BatmanDB]

I never have coached a football team, but I do have experience training men how to be combat ready. Somebody tell me if I am the only one that sees a lack of speed training for all players on a football team with our local teams.

I can't speak for all the teams but I've seen things in strength and speed training that made me feel like I stayed at a holiday inn.If some of these guys had been in your position,our trops couldn't have carried their gear out of the barracks..By the way,thanks for your service,I never seen combat but have all the respect in the world  for all of you that have.My step dad was in Vietnam during the tet offensive.Those guys were treated like shet when they came home and that should never happen in America.Thanks again

Edited October 9, 2016 by BatmanDB

[Gunner0331]

I can't speak for all the teams but I've seen things in strength and speed training that made me feel like I stayed at a holiday inn.If some of these guys had been in your position,our trops couldn't have carried their gear out of the barracks..By the way,thanks for your service,I never seen combat but have all the respect for all of you that have.My step dad was in Vietnam during the tet offensive.Those guys were treated like shet when they came home and that should never happen in America.Thanks again

No doubt about that.I see a lot of local high school teams,ever since I played back in the early nineties,focus a lot on strength training and speed is just an afterthought.Of course you want the fastest guys running the ball and in the backfield on defense, but why not focus on making everyone as fast as they potentially could be for there size. Starting freshman year and working them through every off season until the end of their high school career.Plenty of strength training involved,but I believe speed will win a football game before strength.Granted two football teams with the same coaching ability go head to head,one team is stronger,one team is faster.Makes for a good game,but I believe speed wins out. Cross every T and dot every I. Leave no stone unturned.Maybe that's the difference is say like,Greenville and Central. A couple of years ago I heard of a team who's coach didn't believe in a weightlifting program. I have no idea what the logic behind that was.I have been to some combines this past year and observed all kinds of lightning fast high school kids. Probably all starting backs for their local H.S. teams.Colleges had no interest in them because they was all 5'9 or under. The only guy that caught their eye was a 6'7 senior who ran a 5'2 forty. He was fast for his size.I notice most high schools take the guys who are fastest naturally and make them the backs.Then that's the only speed training the team gets.I can never be a coach on a football team so the only thing I can do is make my son better.We focus on everything or at least try to. Strength, speed , agility,soft hands, etc. My son has an outstanding Football coach and Staff.I would not want him playing for any other team. But in his individual training, I do tell him he needs to focus on speed more so then anything at this point. He has got Size,strength, and agility down pretty good. Focus on the weakness. Most teams weakness around here that I have seen is lack of speed, with the exception of one to two guys.