2017 DII A

[tradertwo]

I'm not jealous or bitter.  It's just that teams that play you are playing against 2 schools rather than 1.  If the impact is so minimal, why not end the co-op or better yet, if the TSSAA decides to play fair, I wonder how long DCA will keep the co-op agreement going when it more than doubles their size and moves you up a class.  

 

I will give you this though.. DCA co-ops with a school that also charges a hefty tuition and probably has similar academic standards.  Lausanne co-ops with a school where there is no tuition the players get out of paying tuition and so does Lausanne plus the co-op players don't have to comply with Lausanne's academic standards.  How does that grab you?

 

Have to agree with you on this chainsaw...TSSAA should be proactive in legislating rather than reactive. If two or three seem like no big deal, the same rules apply should that two or three become fifteen or twenty, which would be a big deal.

[Playerscoach]

Have to agree with you on this chainsaw...TSSAA should be proactive in legislating rather than reactive. If two or three seem like no big deal, the same rules apply should that two or three become fifteen or twenty, which would be a big deal.

So does the TSSAA tell kids they just can't play? What about homeschool kids? Open zone kids? Where do you draw the line?

 

IMO kids deserve an option so do you add a multiplier?

 

What's the answer?

[BigEdMo]

So does the TSSAA tell kids they just can't play? What about homeschool kids? Open zone kids? Where do you draw the line?

 

IMO kids deserve an option so do you add a multiplier?

 

What's the answer?

no no no no. The answer is that when the privates leave it fixes everything. So everyone be HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY. I have always said there were more glaring issues than just privates. Open enrollment co op schools etc. like I said 2018 there will be 12 state champs. And every little Johnny gets a trophy.

[tradertwo]

So does the TSSAA tell kids they just can't play? What about homeschool kids? Open zone kids? Where do you draw the line?

 

IMO kids deserve an option so do you add a multiplier?

 

What's the answer?

 

I'd like all kids to have the opportunity to experience everything that they're inclined to try regarding education and scholastic sports...we "mainstream" the populous too much, and disregard the fringe students. As for TSSAA, they rarely legislate for the potential problems, then botch "fixes" when the loopholes are exploited. I don't pretend to have the answer for all problems, but I can see the potential here.

 

   Let's go hypothetical...you have a 2A in Memphis that offers football, surrounded by three or four charter schools who do not...this 2A (450 enrollment) gains one player from each charter...one happens to be a great player, and the school wins state. There's nothing "wrong" with this scenario...now lets say that another 2A across town that is usually better than school 1 decides that they need to access players, and begin to actively "recruit" kids from the many small schools in Memphis who do not offer football...don't have to transfer, just come play...see the potential?

 

   In order for kids to have the opportunity to play, I like the rule...my school didn't have a football team when I was there, and having always been a fan I'd have loved the chance. Having a hard number allowed might be an option? I really don't have the "fix", but if nothing is ever done, someone will abuse this privilege.

[Playerscoach]

I'd like all kids to have the opportunity to experience everything that they're inclined to try regarding education and scholastic sports...we "mainstream" the populous too much, and disregard the fringe students. As for TSSAA, they rarely legislate for the potential problems, then botch "fixes" when the loopholes are exploited. I don't pretend to have the answer for all problems, but I can see the potential here.

 

Let's go hypothetical...you have a 2A in Memphis that offers football, surrounded by three or four charter schools who do not...this 2A (450 enrollment) gains one player from each charter...one happens to be a great player, and the school wins state. There's nothing "wrong" with this scenario...now lets say that another 2A across town that is usually better than school 1 decides that they need to access players, and begin to actively "recruit" kids from the many small schools in Memphis who do not offer football...don't have to transfer, just come play...see the potential?

 

In order for kids to have the opportunity to play, I like the rule...my school didn't have a football team when I was there, and having always been a fan I'd have loved the chance. Having a hard number allowed might be an option? I really don't have the "fix", but if nothing is ever done, someone will abuse this privilege.

Good post.

[chainsaw2]

In the case of co-op schools, I think the fix is simple:  count students in both schools and then determine the classification based upon the combined student population.  This way, all kids get to play and no one is turned away and the football team plays in the appropriate class regardless if 2-3 kids come from the co-op school or 20-30 do.  You know the number of students is going to fluctuate year to year and athletic talent level as well.

[Playerscoach]

In the case of co-op schools, I think the fix is simple: count students in both schools and then determine the classification based upon the combined student population. This way, all kids get to play and no one is turned away and the football team plays in the appropriate class regardless if 2-3 kids come from the co-op school or 20-30 do. You know the number of students is going to fluctuate year to year and athletic talent level as well.

Same with open enrollment? All sports too right? The current multiplier for private schools in Div I is what? I think your plan is way too punitive on smaller school kids.

 

You narrow the schools able to do it, and quite possibly only to the schools already playing in the largest classification. Just ban it if you're going to that extreme.

 

Also, if it was even 25 football kids wouldn't the TSSAA require the school to get its own team?

Edited November 23, 2016 by Playerscoach

[chainsaw2]

Player-

 

I have no idea about open zone because the pool of possible students/athletes is indeterminable.  The multiplier is 1.8 for privates in D 1.  I don't think the TSSAA can force a school to have a team if 25 kids want to play, but maybe they can.

 

If the host school has 200 students and the co-op school has 100 students, I don't see the difference in being classified with a single school of 300 students.  Maybe there is a stigma with the co-op school kids playing ball for a host school that a non-co- op school doesn't face.  What I mean is a greater percentage of boys will go out for football at the 300 school rather than the 100 co-op school.  I don't know.  I just know some schools (not saying DCA is the main culprit) currently and in the future use this situation to their advantage especially when it's a private school co-op with a charter public school.  Anyway, Happy Thanksgiving!  

[warhawk]

This is probably not a well thought out statement but here goes....The theory that private schools should have a multiplier(in TN. it is 1.8) to be placed into a division was instituted to help level the playing field with "fairness" arguments.    The same logic should apply to open zoned schools and co-op schools.   It does not have to be 1.8 but it should have some multiplier to help level the playing field.    The schools that use open enrollment and co-op agreements have a definite advantage over those schools that do not.   

[Playerscoach]

Player-

 

I have no idea about open zone because the pool of possible students/athletes is indeterminable. The multiplier is 1.8 for privates in D 1. I don't think the TSSAA can force a school to have a team if 25 kids want to play, but maybe they can.

 

If the host school has 200 students and the co-op school has 100 students, I don't see the difference in being classified with a single school of 300 students. Maybe there is a stigma with the co-op school kids playing ball for a host school that a non-co- op school doesn't face. What I mean is a greater percentage of boys will go out for football at the 300 school rather than the 100 co-op school. I don't know. I just know some schools (not saying DCA is the main culprit) currently and in the future use this situation to their advantage especially when it's a private school co-op with a charter public school. Anyway, Happy Thanksgiving!

No worries. Good post. I think its a great question/topic.

 

Happy Thanksgiving to u too!

[tradertwo]

In the case of co-op schools, I think the fix is simple:  count students in both schools and then determine the classification based upon the combined student population.  This way, all kids get to play and no one is turned away and the football team plays in the appropriate class regardless if 2-3 kids come from the co-op school or 20-30 do.  You know the number of students is going to fluctuate year to year and athletic talent level as well.

 

I was in agreement with your other post, this one not so much. In theory your solution makes sense, but in practicality there are obstacles that prevent some students from co-op'ing , with travel being foremost. Like I stated...I would have relished the chance to play, but would never have played for a "rival" school in other sports, would have been halfway through my junior year before I had transportation, and the added amount of travel time would have made it impractical if not impossible. If I had to offer a solution with regard to fairness for both viewpoints, it would be a hard limit on co op student athletes determined by classification...example; 1A 3 students, 2A 5 students, ect...That would still allow for "recruiting", and the possibility of even the smallest school to tremendously better themselves, but you can't account for everything, and would give the kids an avenue to play that they do deserve.

 

 

EDIT...TSSAA can't force schools to do anything...they are a separate entity that schools pay to be associated with. Their only power is the fact that member schools wish to remain in alliance, thus most always abide by the bylaws.

Edited November 23, 2016 by tradertwo

[CFAfan]

The co-op situation is total garbage. If a home school kid wants to play football they need to find a home school team to play on or attend a school offering the activities they wish to participate in. Same goes for kids attending a USN and wishing to play football. Its about sacrifice to attend a private school. You cant have it all. Kids should only be able to participate in activities their school offers. BUT, this would require the TSSAA to actually legislate with common sense, something they have shown to be impossible for them.