UTC - 4th Place, 2 wrestlers in finals?

[mattpitts]

Thoughtful response.

 

I wasn't suggesting a total purge of the existing staff and I am in total agreement , we are not and likely will not be competing with some of the top 5 teams you mentioned, ever. That said I am concerned our local bar may be a bit low, a top 25 and 1st or second in the socon should be a bare minimum expectation each and every year. If as you noted we get a couple of ranked guys and a few others step it up cracking the top 20 should not be too far fetched.

 

I agree with you about the bare minimum.  Heath's done a great job within the SoCon almost every year, so I wouldn't be too alarmed about this season just yet.  NCAA's haven't been that kind to us though.  Our highest finish since 09'-10' is 45th with every other year north of 50 and no AA's.

[cbg]

Idk what the expectations of the UTC adminstration are regarding the wrestling program.  My personal expectations are that the MOCS should be able to compete (top 2) for the Southern Conference Championships each season and have one (1) wrestler each year that is ranked in the top 10 of his weight classification along with having a legitimate opportunity to AA.  It's been quite some time since UTC produced an All-American but I truly don't know if Heath is given the key to a full tool box.  For whatever reason NO ONE has ever been able to give me an honest answer as to if the program is fully funded and if not to what degree is the program funded. 

[maj]

Idk what the expectations of the UTC adminstration are regarding the wrestling program.  My personal expectations are that the MOCS should be able to compete (top 2) for the Southern Conference Championships each season and have one (1) wrestler each year that is ranked in the top 10 of his weight classification along with having a legitimate opportunity to AA.  It's been quite some time since UTC produced an All-American but I truly don't know if Heath is given the key to a full tool box.  For whatever reason NO ONE has ever been able to give me an honest answer as to if the program is fully funded and if not to what degree is the program funded. 

 

Good point on the scholarships. If he doesn't have the 9.9 ( ? I guess this is still the # ) to work with, then it's hard to expect him to compete with those who do.

[Ummmno]

This is a joke right? I mean how is everybody defending him? What exactly has he accomplished since being at UTC? Sure he himself was a good wrestler there but did he ever AA? And now the program is following in his extremely mediocre footseps. Just look at the long long long list of Tennessee kids who have had good credentials just fade away into the nothingness that is UTC.

 

Get rid of Heath and get someone in the door that can actually do something with the program. Settling for SoCon championships cant be enough. They have to actually want to produce past that.

[Newestguy]

Though he didn't All American, Heath was a very successful D1 Collegiate wrestler under Brands. I believe he is very high on the list of most wins at UTC. As far as Tennessee kids, I'm not sure who you expected to set the world on fire. The most accomplished TN kids over the last decade didn't attend UTC (Duncan, Watson, Croy, etc.) and also didn't set the world on fire.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Newestguy

[russianbear]

Thoughtful response.

 

I wasn't suggesting a total purge of the existing staff and I am in total agreement , we are not and likely will not be competing with some of the top 5 teams you mentioned, ever. That said I am concerned our local bar may be a bit low, a top 25 and 1st or second in the socon should be a bare minimum expectation each and every year. If as you noted we get a couple of ranked guys and a few others step it up cracking the top 20 should not be too far fetched.

[Ummmno]

Though he didn't All American, Heath was a very successful D1 Collegiate wrestler under Brands. I believe he is very high on the list of most wins at UTC. As far as Tennessee kids, I'm not sure who you expected to set the world on fire. The most accomplished TN kids over the last decade didn't attend UTC (Duncan, Watson, Croy, etc.) and also didn't set the world on fire.

Duncan was a national champ. Watson was set back with many many injuries. Croy was the captain of the Harvard team, and the argument could be made that his primary focus may not have been wrestling since he was at Harvard. We have too much talent to be set back by going to UTC. I hope Debian can break the curse and finally AA. Heath was an extremely good wrestler at Chatt, but never got all American status. And so long as our kids continue to go there to wrestle under him they will follow in his footsteps. They will be good wrestlers who always miss the podium.

[russianbear]

Maj, I'd have to disagree with you about not being top 5. Why not? Your outcome very rarely exceeds your expectations. I guess I'm just not a small thinker.

There are several things UTC has to offer:

 

1) An opportunity to start as a freshman

2) An opportunity to qualify for the NCAA's as a Freshman (what conference is easier to qualify through?)

3) The size of the university is ideal - Not too big, not too small. The same can be said for the size of the city.

4) You can monopolize GA, FL, TN, SC, AL, KY. The quality of wrestling in these states is much improved, especially in GA and AL (yes, AL). There are no Universities south of Chattanooga that have a D1 program.

5) The administration loves Heath. He has their total support. Many programs wouldn't have survived the Corey Mock ordeal. Thank God Heath was there. Not sure what would have happened to the program if he wasn't. I also give him much deserved credit for bringing in (and running perfectly) the Southern Scuffle.

6) The alumni support is very good.

7) Academically it's actually a pretty good school - especially the business and nursing schools.

8) For kids in the elite states (OH, PA, IN, NY, NJ, etc) there are far fewer D1 programs to choose from than before.

 

One thing we lack is a Sunkist Kid's, or NYAC type of offseason training program. There never has been a graduate assistant coach. Someone elite still competing working out and taking in kids to personally train with. This has been an ongoing problem. Kid's that see themselves wrestling after college automatically scratch UTC off the list.

 

 

When I wrestled at UTC (1984-89) Ethan Reeve had 4.5 scholarships. Ethan was great at certain things, but appealing to the administration's pocket book wasn't one of them. He also had zero pay for an assistant coach. He had volunteers. We were close, on the verge, but didn't quit get over the hump. That's with no money and no help. We were ranked consistently in the top 20 his last 2 or 3 years, had at least 3 or 4 guys in the blood round, but unfortunately no AA's. Ralph Manning took over and produced 3 AA's over the next 2 years (all of those wrestled their first 2 or 3 years under Ethan). Ralph was good with the administration. He got the scholarships raised to 6.5 and eventually 7 or 8. If I'm not mistaken Mark Leen (who took over after Ralph) got it raised to at least 9. I have no idea what UTC has now.

 

I'm sure Heath is very frustrated and disappointed. I think the biggest issue is the ability to retain at least one Assistant Coach. It seems they stay for a couple years and then he has to start over. IMO the most important job of the Head Coach is to hire the right assistant coach.

Edited March 14, 2017 by russianbear

[Ummmno]

Chattanooga is a joke. Until we get a real coaching staff, whether that's getting rid of Heath or him stopping hiring his, also mediocre assistant coaches and hire some real deal assistant coaches, we will continue to be a joke to the rest of the ncaa. Do you think anybody in the country is ever concerned when they draw a utc kid in r1 of the ncaa tourney? No. Theyre not.

 

Who in their right mind would rather go somewhere where you can start as a freshman and qualify easily for the ncaa tourney as a freshman over going to a better room like iowa or psu or tosu and actually working to get on the podium? Whos goal is it to just qualify for the national tourney?

[russianbear]

First off, anyone who "isn't concerned" about who they draw in the first round of the NCAA tournament will find themselves again in the first round - the first consolation round.

 

Secondly, there aren't very many D1 wrestling programs. UTC isn't going to get the first tier guys (at least until we get to a top tier program). That's a given. The key is to get the guys with the untapped potential. That means taking a chance on a great athlete that isn't a straight A student. Getting someone who started wrestling as a sophomore in high school that no one sees wrestle in Alabama. Someone from FL that came to UTC's camp and showed signs of being a scramble freak.

 

The straight A, clean nose kid that's a high school AA is going to Cornell, not UTC. Ethan Reeve knew this and he got guys to fit the style he wanted to wrestle. The question is what type of style does UTC want to wrestle.

[Ummmno]

First off, anyone who "isn't concerned" about who they draw in the first round of the NCAA tournament will find themselves again in the first round - the first consolation round.

 

Secondly, there aren't very many D1 wrestling programs. UTC isn't going to get the first tier guys (at least until we get to a top tier program). That's a given. The key is to get the guys with the untapped potential. That means taking a chance on a great athlete that isn't a straight A student. Getting someone who started wrestling as a sophomore in high school that no one sees wrestle in Alabama. Someone from FL that came to UTC's camp and showed signs of being a scramble freak.

 

The straight A, clean nose kid that's a high school AA is going to Cornell, not UTC. Ethan Reeve knew this and he got guys to fit the style he wanted to wrestle. The question is what type of style does UTC want to wrestle.

Were those the guys that were coming to chatt when Terry was here? You know, the last time we had an all American.

 

If you get a high profile coaching staff with the ability to recruit the kids will come here. Saying we're not the school that the better wrestlers want to go to is a cop out. We can be that school we just have to start recruiting like we're that school. Stop going after b quality wrestlers and giving excuses for it. Debian is the best wrestler to walk through those doors in the last 10 years and we only got lucky with him bc he lived down the road. They need to man up and start recruiting harder. Or get rid of the coaches and hire someone who will.

[Nainten]

This is a joke right? I mean how is everybody defending him? What exactly has he accomplished since being at UTC? Sure he himself was a good wrestler there but did he ever AA? And now the program is following in his extremely mediocre footseps. Just look at the long long long list of Tennessee kids who have had good credentials just fade away into the nothingness that is UTC.

 

Get rid of Heath and get someone in the door that can actually do something with the program. Settling for SoCon championships cant be enough. They have to actually want to produce past that.

Who was the coach before Eslinger and how did he fare with respect to producing national qualifiers and All-Americans?  Not a rhetorical question. I honestly don't know.  I'll say this...it takes much more than having a coach who can develop talent to have a top 20-25 program.  You need to have an administration committed to the program.  If a program has "C" level institutional support and people around the program have "A of B" level expectations, then there is some delusion going on no matter how good the coach is at developing talent.  I don't know that this is the case at UTC but you seem to lay it all at his feet, so I am just wondering if UTC supports the program to the extent that perennial top 25 schools do.  My impression has been-- and I admit I don't know this for fact -- that it does not.