Tennessee DI All-Americans

[BobCorker]

28 minutes ago, WrestlingGod said:

Yeah, im not going to tell the kids i've coached not to chase their dreams because statically it probably wont work out. That's awful life advice. And no, im not "hung up" on d1 being the end all be all, my oldest child's godfather was a d2 national champ and coahces at Newberry. I've sent kids his way plenty of times. But man, i just cannot grasp the idea of telling kids not to follow their dreams or go try and get a spot on the best school they're capable of getting into becuase they may not make it. That's just pitiful 

 

Also, to add on, we've got more kids now in this moment that are capable of making an impact on a d1 roster than we've ever had before (chittum, the uhorchucks, jakobs, desselle, hilton, flynn etc)

I think it is worse "life advice" to not be honest.  One of the worst mistakes an adult can make is to put a kid in a situation where they are in over their heads.   Adults make this mistake all of the time.  They put kids in AP Calc when they should be in regular math.  They try to sneak their way into an elite school when they should actually send them to a state school for half of the cost.  They send them to college when they should send them to get their apprenticeship for a local electrician.  Not only do life long outcomes change in this scenario but a kid's happiness also changes.   

Kids often have dreams that are not grounded in reality.  They are making decisions based on 2-3 years of "real world" experience.  Adults should be able to analyze 30-40 years of data/evidence/life experience in order to give young adults the best advice.  

While most won't admit it, it is more about the parents than the kids.   Johnny's dad is sending his kid to Vanderbilt, so we can't send our kid to ETSU.   Billy's dad posted on social media that Billy signed to Nebraska, so how could we possibly send our kid to Wabash College to wrestle. 

I also disagree on the current crop of TN kids.  The crop of early 2000s kids was better.  5 of the 7 AAs from our state came out of that crop.  In the same time frame we also had Rusty Blackmon, Jake Yost, Kevin Ward, Darren McKnight, Kyle James, Patrick Simpson, Corey Manson, Jason McCroskey, Brandon Wright, Shawn Cordell, John Lane, and probably more that I am forgetting.  Almost all had meaningful college wrestling experiences. 

[WrestlingGod]

43 minutes ago, oceansize42 said:

You're thinking about how you speak to kids and not how someone with a modicum of common sense speaks to kids. 

If I'm talking to a young man who clearly doesn't belong at the D1 level I'm not going to say "well you stink and shouldn't go". I'm not going to quote statistics or draw comparisons to other wrestlers. I'm going to sit them down and have a level headed honest conversation, which I believe most kids and young adults want. I'm going to tell them that if they choose D1, their current abilities do not align with that choice.  I'm going to tell them the road will be extraordinarily difficult (I think D1 wrestling is the hardest collegiate sport by a mile) and the amount of work required to achieve even a modicum of success will be costly in terms of time and physical well being.  However, if that is your choice and you understand what is required then shoot for the stars (because that is what they are doing, I'm not telling them this part).   I would then point out the advantages to wrestling at a lower level.  

You're acting as if everyone thinks and speaks at the level you do.   Like in wrestling there are levels, in thought, observation, and the spoken word.  

 

17 minutes ago, BobCorker said:

I think it is worse "life advice" to not be honest.  One of the worst mistakes an adult can make is to put a kid in a situation where they are in over their heads.   Adults make this mistake all of the time.  They put kids in AP Calc when they should be in regular math.  They try to sneak their way into an elite school when they should actually send them to a state school for half of the cost.  They send them to college when they should send them to get their apprenticeship for a local electrician.  Not only do life long outcomes change in this scenario but a kid's happiness also changes.   

Kids often have dreams that are not grounded in reality.  They are making decisions based on 2-3 years of "real world" experience.  Adults should be able to analyze 30-40 years of data/evidence/life experience in order to give young adults the best advice.  

While most won't admit it, it is more about the parents than the kids.   Johnny's dad is sending his kid to Vanderbilt, so we can't send our kid to ETSU.   Billy's dad posted on social media that Billy signed to Nebraska, so how could we possibly send our kid to Wabash College to wrestle. 

I also disagree on the current crop of TN kids.  The crop of early 2000s kids was better.  5 of the 7 AAs from our state came out of that crop.  In the same time frame we also had Rusty Blackmon, Jake Yost, Kevin Ward, Darren McKnight, Kyle James, Patrick Simpson, Corey Manson, Jason McCroskey, Brandon Wright, Shawn Cordell, John Lane, and probably more that I am forgetting.  Almost all had meaningful college wrestling experiences. 

Man i feel sorry for any kids you ever coach. To not tell a kid to follow their dreams is crazy. If they fail and want to move divisions that's their decision or if they fail and want to quit thats their decision, but to tell them not to even attempt it is astounding. I sincerely hope you never coach any of my kids. 

[desselle]

2 hours ago, oceansize42 said:

I couldn't agree more with this.  Sammy putting in the work AND getting the rewards. Great to see.

Look at Palmer. He’s a 2 NCAA Qualifier. You saying he shouldn’t have gone D1

[desselle]

I wasn’t going to comment but all I say is I’m glad you 2 are not in his circle. You are the exact people I tell my kids to avoid as they will only drag you down with them. I want my kids to be surrounded by like minded people that want them to achieve greatness. 

Edited March 25 by desselle

[oceansize42]

39 minutes ago, desselle said:

Look at Palmer. He’s a 2 NCAA Qualifier. You saying he shouldn’t have gone D1

Sheesh, none of you can read. What part of "vast majority" or "most" don't you guys understand?  Palmer was D1 material and anyone with a brain knew it.

Let us all aspire to greatness by first learning to read posts and not get emotional.

Edited March 25 by oceansize42

[desselle]

30 minutes ago, oceansize42 said:

Sheesh, none of you can read. What part of "vast majority" or "most" don't you guys understand?  Palmer was D1 material and anyone with a brain knew it.

Let us all aspire to greatness by first learning to read posts and not get emotional.

So who are you to say who is D1 material and not. Please list the D1 talent you have recruited. Also please list the kids that went D1 that weren’t D1 material and should have gone D2 or lower. Since “most” shouldn’t have been there. 

[BobCorker]

1 hour ago, desselle said:

I wasn’t going to comment but all I say is I’m glad you 2 are not in his circle. You are the exact people I tell my kids to avoid as they will only drag you down with them. I want my kids to be surrounded by like minded people that want them to achieve greatness. 

Don't take it so personal.  No one is telling you that you made a bad decision.  

If someone tells a kid:  You could probably go to Nebraska and if you work really hard you might make the lineup and be an NCAA qualifier.  You could also go to Washington and Lee and compete for DIII titles.  You might win a DIII title.  The time requirements are not the same, and it might allow you to get a degree in Economics and pursue a career with Goldman Sachs right out of undergrad. That conversation isn't dragging them down; it is most certainly not bad parenting.  That is giving them options and setting them up for success.  Plenty of kids have DI aspirations but realize that DII/DIII/NAIA are better options.  We are not saying kids should never take the chance of cracking a DI lineup; we are simply looking at 60 years of results.  If a kid has all of the information, then they can make their own decision.  We are saying that most kids don't have all of the information, so they feel that it is DI or bust.  The reality is it doesn't work for most kids across the country. 

Most kids who are ranked on recruiting big boards will never sniff AA.  Only 8 kids per weight class can claim that distinction at the DI level.  Each DI room is filled with Fargo AAs, Super 32 AAs, and 4x State Champs who never see the mat.  Use Chase Horne at NC State for example.  4x champ, Fargo Finalist, Super 32 Champ- has yet to break the lineup and next year they have Isaac Trumble coming off redshirt at Heavy.  Horne is awesome and may still make it, but it is not easy at that level.  

 

 

Edited March 25 by BobCorker

[Appvol]

8 hours ago, oceansize42 said:

Tennessee is improving, no doubt, but so is everyone else and this is what gets overlooked.  I was really pulling for Palmer to  squeak it out but that didn't happen. Brayden, if you read this, I enjoyed watching you wrestle, well done. Chittum had a weird tournament. A win over Teemer, who took second, in the regular season but that didn't translate when it mattered.  The loss to the App State guy was the ugly one. He is too old for the well he is just a freshmen chatter. I do think he will AA, likely next year.

I've said it before and it was a really unpopular statement but I stand by the statement that most TN kids who enter D1, if wrestling is the priority, would be better served at the D2, D3, NAIA, or JUCO levels. There is no shame in that and I don't know why it was treated as if I said our kids stink, they don't. There is a list of really good wrestlers from TN over the last few years who didn't survive but one or two seasons within D1.  

I realize everyone wants to make a big deal about recruitment but I see signing as the easy part (in comparison), not the hard part.  The hard part is starting and winning, again, if wrestling really really is a priority. 

How many TN kids are even the starter on their team within D1? How many have a winning record?

Askey for App St is a tough kid. Coach Bentley does a really good job at developing kids. That’s one reason I can’t wait to see how Little develops at App St. and what his career looks like. He can be a AA before he leaves I think

[desselle]

Just now, Appvol said:

Askey for App St is a tough kid. Coach Bentley does a really good job at developing kids. That’s one reason I can’t wait to see how Little develops at App St. and what his career looks like. He can be a AA before he leaves I think

Right. There are so many factors why a kid will chose D1. You just can’t say he shouldn’t  go D1 because he doesn’t fit the mold or 65 years of history say it won’t matter. 

[WrestlingGod]

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Edited March 25 by WrestlingGod

[oceansize42]

6 minutes ago, desselle said:

Right. There are so many factors why a kid will chose D1. You just can’t say he shouldn’t  go D1 because he doesn’t fit the mold or 65 years of history say it won’t matter. 

Again no one said every kid won’t make it. You and another seem determined to make it out I said every single kid from TN is a failure.  One more time, most will not make it. Each young man is different, but there are definitely some I look at and, to your chagrin, say to myself it is never happening.  Ever.  That isn’t due to some personal grievance on my part.  Again, facts and history lay it out.  We don’t have to guess.  History tells the tale as it will for current generations entering D1 colleges.   It sucks, it isn’t a likable truth but it is the truth.  Particularly so for those going to top 10 schools. 

[WrestlingGod]

7 hours ago, oceansize42 said:

 Yes. I'm not sure how else you could interpret what I wrote. Is there another interpretation I'm missing?  The vast majority who head to D1 are not good enough. I'll take it a step further, parents and coaches are doing most of these a kids a disservice by directing them to D1 level schools if wrestling is a priority.  If wrestling is just an activity, then by all means.

 

32 minutes ago, BobCorker said:

Don't take it so personal.  No one is telling you that you made a bad decision.  

 We are not saying kids should never take the chance of cracking a DI lineup; we are simply looking at 60 years of results. 

 

 

That may not be what YOU are saying, but it is what Oceansize is saying. I even quoted the section for you.