should private schools be taken out of single A?

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I have no idea...I'm just saying, GHS is really competetive in girls volleyball.

[supersteve17]

turbo (and a few others),

 

You are missing my point. Mr. Nall's fine statistics (and he does great work!) do not really prove anything.

 

If there are "unfair advantages" that the private schools have, why don't ALL the private schools have them?

 

Stated another way, if the public schools "can't compete" with the private schools, why can some public schools compete with some private schools?

 

That which proves too much proves nothing.

[BDURHAM]

It is too general of a statement to say that all publics cannot compete against any private school. Moreover, it is too general of a statement to say that all publics can compete against all publics. There is a reason we have classifications.

 

This debate cannot be determined simply with words. The history of the past 10-20 years has to be considered.

 

Common sense and experience tells us that when a private institution wishes to focus on athletics and/or a particular sport, most privates can dominate.

 

A public school has to take who walks in the door. A private can market itself. Some private coaches directly choose to participate in the marketing process. Some private coaches have "scouts," parents and alumns who refer athletes to particular schools. Some private coaches have offered "scholarships" to athletes.

 

The fact that a few private schools have chosen to abuse the system has poisoned the image of all privates. A thinking person can distinguish between the privates who blatanlty violate the rules and those who don't. There are some private schools in the middle -- who no one can say for certain if they are cheating, but there is plenty of indicators that raise suspicions.

 

Unfortunately, the privates who do not violate the rules are tainted by the privates who do.

[pujo]

Take CAK for example, I think this will will be their forth year of varsity football. The peices are falling in place, hired a coach from a nearby 5a school, have Knoxville for a drawing pool. If nothing changes ,they will rule region 2 in the near future. As far as I know,they are breaking no rules,but then again,they don,t have to. The system is flawed, its just to easy. They have been the doormat until last year,but started coming on as the season went along. This year alot of people are picking them 1st or 2nd in their region. Things happen fast at these schools when they get all the peices in place. Should be interesting.

[Chakra20]

I really dont get it. Most of the public supporters and private supporters agree something has to be done, but that something is where the disagreement comes in. I say put them all together ad a multiplier and be done with it. Easier to manage and not segregation where any of your championships can be challenged from either sized saying well u didnt play BA or you didnt beat Maryville etc etc...

 

I'm afraid the small 1a schools do not have enough of a voice to make this happen but public schools as a whole do because of sure numbers. Private schools really dont have much say in the matter because of the numbers. I still stick to my orignal point that if public schools woould have been taking care of business since day one the need for private schools would be regulated to relgious preferences, and you wouldnt have one opening everywhere because of the sad state of public education.

 

The big schools dont wanna play even though they havent proven one thing that privates have done that is illegal in a court of law(BA won that i belevie). That is why divsion 2 was orignally hatched was simply because of one school and one man Rankin @ Riverdale. It took this many years for it to trickle down to the smaller divisions and for good reason. Private schools have surpassed the growth curve over public schools, its really that simple. They grow faster and become sucessful earlier than public school because of their ability to bring in good coaches and have easily coachable kids. It is not recruiting but can be considered that because of the way they get their students. Every student that attends a private school has been recruited even the non-sports kids by either another parent,teacher, kid, or the reputation of the school.

 

I would hate to see a total split mainly because it doesnt let anyone say they are the true state champion, because there are schools of a similar size that win one as well. I fear that the voice of the many(public schools) will drowned out the few(private schools) but this is america where the majority rules so i would expect to see whatever the public schools want, which from what i hear is a total split/ If that does happen i would expect,no demand, that all private schools form their own league and get out of the government ran TSSAA and have their money and efforts put toward a league that has their best interests at heart.

 

'nuff said

 

./end rant

[pujo]

Great post Chakra, the only part I don,t agree with is the BA thing. They are the ones who brought on the first split. They may have won the law suit,but so did O J Simpson.

[turbo]

turbo (and a few others),

 

You are missing my point. Mr. Nall's fine statistics (and he does great work!) do not really prove anything.

 

If there are "unfair advantages" that the private schools have, why don't ALL the private schools have them?

 

Stated another way, if the public schools "can't compete" with the private schools, why can some public schools compete with some private schools?

 

That which proves too much proves nothing.

I think that facilities and location are the two biggest factors that give a private school an advantage, plus no zone restrictions.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

Please remember that it costs money to get the facilities and nice location you speak of.

 

It's called TUTION...The private school parents are the ones paying for it.

 

If the public school parents chipped in to buy a better football field, upgraded scoreboard, etc. Then it would be the same...public school parents should think about doing that, if they want to attract better kids. They could also talk to their school board and do like the Memphis City School Board does and allow for open enrollment. Open enrollment doesn't mean you will be great in sports, Tredwell, Westside, Southside, Carver, BTW, Northside, Kingsbury, Manassas, and many other Memphis City Schools are just average at football.

 

Sure you have powerhouses like East, Melrose, and Ridgeway, but their success does not come from open zones, because all of those other schools have open zones yet are horrible. It comes from coaching and fan support, those three schools have great coaches and the kids really do want to go out there and play...it really shows...that is what seperates them from the other schools.

[BDURHAM]

Chakra,

 

You're distorting history. There are multiple reasons Division II was created. It is inaccurate to single out any one person. And it is Watson, not Rankin that you should be mentioning.

[Chakra20]

Well i will say it was Riverdales inability to beat Brentwood Academy. With all things being equal the simplest answer usually is the right one. They set a presedence when they split the schools so that is the hand we are dealt. I wasnt as in tune with high schools during that time, but i do know that if we mention Riverdale it really isnt fair not to mention BA, because its their actions that brought along the whole idea.

[BDURHAM]

With all things being equal the simplest answer usually is the right one.

 

 

Don't let the facts get in the way of an opinion.

[gobigred]

Stan,

 

I have been busy with work and summer ball lately and unable to respond to your last post in our discussion until now.

 

It’s a shame that someone can be as concerned about the welfare of Tennessee high school athletics as you seem to be and yet refuse to consider any solution except a total split. Do you not understand that a total split will further diminish the national credibility of our state’s programs?

 

 

Your statements:

Some public coaches have witnessed players in their feeder system being recruited by private schools. Some private schools have crossed county lines to recruit players.

 

A few bad apples have spolied the barrel.

 

And BA is not the only cheater. Again, look at why there is a Division II before you start advocating the larger publics play against the privates.

 

Are you attempting to convince that you are naïve to the truth? Give me a break, Stan!! There have been many accusations of cheating made against both public and private schools for years. Why single out BA and other privates as the only culprits?

 

I refuse to call the names of the public schools that are regularly accused (by other publics) of recruiting because I do not have personal knowledge of the facts. With that said you and I both know there are some who bend the current guidelines in both camps.

 

Again, if any school is proven to be cheating they need to be punished regardless of who they are. Your statement of your belief that privates cheat more and better than publics is irrelevalent to the discussion. If we continue to bellyache about the problem instead of fixing it, things will never improve

 

The only way to resolve the recruiting issue is for the TSSAA to spend the time to draft specific, enforceable rules. This should be the cornerstone of any meaningful changes made in the near future. The TSSAA vs. BA court case clearly identified the fact that the current rules are too vague to be enforced.

 

DII was formed because member schools were unwilling to eliminate the option of providing financial aid to deserving students who are also athletes. There are many more kids who do not participate in varsity sports receiving financial aid than there are athletes. To discriminate against athletes would be ridiculous. If you have additional facts about the HISTORY of DII please post them so that I can better appreciate what you are trying to say.

 

My quote:

Consider basketball for a moment. Do you believe any DII private school could have stayed on the court with White Station this year? How about baseball...Farragut is ranked in the top ten nationally. I can tell you that after we (MBA) scrimmaged Riverdale and Hendersonville this year it was very clear that they were loaded with talent and were capable of playing at a level above any of the DII teams we faced.

 

Is football your only point of reference? I noticed that you choose not to respond to my points above about basketball and baseball. Which schools in the upper classifications have the dominant teams in those sports? Certainly not DII!