The Voting Results!

[std]

bbsesq is right anyone can go to any school they choose. Sometimes it takes a move, sometimes it takes petitioning the school board, sometimes it takes paying private tuition. The powerhouse programs attract great athletes. Parents may choose to move into a zone to play for AAAAA state powerhouse high. Parents may choose to pay private tuition in order for their child to play for a top private school. Special educational programs may allow a transfer to an unzoned school. The problem is most top athletes and their parents don't choose to move to rural A class areas for athletic or educational opportunity. This is the disadvantage of most class A and AA schools.

Edited October 18, 2003 by std

[ELA]

bbsesq is right anyone can go to any school they choose. Sometimes it takes a move, sometimes it takes petitioning the school board, sometimes it takes paying private tuition. The powerhouse programs attract great athletes. Parents may choose to move into a zone to play for AAAAA state powerhouse high. Parents may coose to pay private tuition in order for their child to play for a top private school. Special educational programs may allow a transfer to an unzoned school. The problem is most top athletes and their parents don't choose to move to rural A class areas for athletic opportunity. This is the disadvantage of most class A and AA schools.

Very true! This is the difference that bbsesq doesn't want to acknowledge... VERY FEW PEOPLE ELECT TO COME TO ERHS, unless you're trying to get away from Brainerd. It's true we have some good athletic programs but our facilities and overall reputation don't exactly "cry out" for people to flock to our doors. IN FACT, just the opposite is true! If we had all of the kids whose parents have withdrawn them from ERHS to go to Notre Dame, BBS, McCallie, and Baylor we would have a great football team!

 

Private schools and public schools with open zones should be required to play UP! It's only fair!

[itzme]

No, what's a shame is that someone who went to MBA (I assume) believes that the 1A and 2A public schools, which are overwhelmingly rural, have it in for the overwhelmingly metropolitan private schools just because the parents are jealous of the financial situation which allows students to attend these schools.  I don't know if you or the other guy to whom you responded (itzme) are aware, but there aren't too many private schools outside of 20 miles of the center of the metropolitan areas of Tennessee.  Basically, people who live in rural areas can either send their child to the local public school, drive anywhere from 40 to 150 miles to commute to the nearest private, or send them away to a boarding school.  Personally, I pay more in taxes than the average family grosses in a year in Williamson county...my accountant reminds me of this interesting fact every year, and I am far from being the wealthiest person in my little county.  So get off of your high horse and ruminate your thoughts before you decide to vent on a message board about something which you know nothing, or didn't they teach you that at MBA?

 

The only resentment rural public school supporters have for private schools is their ability to basically field a 5A team (due to population benefits) with a 1A or 2A enrollment...period.

 

Boy, for a couple of people who share an elitist vision, you fellows sure do get snippy when you're asked to leave the common folks' party.  The thing that confuses me the most about this public-private debate is that the privates are so adamant about wanting to remain in D1, even though they believe they are superior in every facet to the rural publics with similar enrollment.  Is it because they know that they'll face a much tougher task in D2?

I admit that I only base my observations on my own experience, and that does not include a lot of interaction with folks from the rural schools. As a regular reader of and sometime poster on this board, I understand that those schools have issues with the current setup. I understand and sympathize with that. My comments were based only on the interactions I have had with parents and coaches from the larger 4A and 5A schools around Nashville, and refer primarily to the initial formation of DII. In my opinion, based on following the debate here, some of the same reasons hold true in the current debate.

 

I have stated previously on this board that parents make the best decisions they can, decisions based on what they think is best for their child. I place no labels or judgment on those who choose to send their kids to public schools (as I did mine through 5th grade) or those who happen to pick any of the wide variety of private schools. You obviously do not share that practice. Personally, I attended public schools my entire academic career, including college. I am not one of those who resents paying real estate taxes that fund public schools, as I think they benefit society greatly.

 

If you had a student athlete playing at a current DII school, you would feel the resentment, and understand the attempts to marginalize these programs. You don't, so you can't. You may have the right argument, but you are in the wrong debate on this one.

 

Congratulations on your enormous income. Please shop at Cool Springs Mall...we can use the taxes!

Edited October 18, 2003 by itzme

[rollredroll]

Personally, I pay more in taxes than the average family grosses in a year in Williamson county...my accountant reminds me of this interesting fact every year, and I am far from being the wealthiest person in my little county.

I'm not sure how this statement supports your argument or refutes gobigred's argument any further by putting it out there.

 

If we're going to make claims of someone being an elitist...

[gobigred]

No, what's a shame is that someone who went to MBA (I assume) believes that the 1A and 2A public schools, which are overwhelmingly rural, have it in for the overwhelmingly metropolitan private schools just because the parents are jealous of the financial situation which allows students to attend these schools.  I don't know if you or the other guy to whom you responded (itzme) are aware, but there aren't too many private schools outside of 20 miles of the center of the metropolitan areas of Tennessee.  Basically, people who live in rural areas can either send their child to the local public school, drive anywhere from 40 to 150 miles to commute to the nearest private, or send them away to a boarding school.  Personally, I pay more in taxes than the average family grosses in a year in Williamson county...my accountant reminds me of this interesting fact every year, and I am far from being the wealthiest person in my little county.  So get off of your high horse and ruminate your thoughts before you decide to vent on a message board about something which you know nothing, or didn't they teach you that at MBA?

 

The only resentment rural public school supporters have for private schools is their ability to basically field a 5A team (due to population benefits) with a 1A or 2A enrollment...period.

 

Boy, for a couple of people who share an elitist vision, you fellows sure do get snippy when you're asked to leave the common folks' party.  The thing that confuses me the most about this public-private debate is that the privates are so adamant about wanting to remain in D1, even though they believe they are superior in every facet to the rural publics with similar enrollment.  Is it because they know that they'll face a much tougher task in D2?

The content of your post indicates that you have not been a regular reader of this board. For some reason you have initiated a personal attack on us based on some seriously flawed assumptions on your part to vent some apparent personal frustration.

 

I have gone on record here numerous times saying that the small rural schools need some relief from the current classification system. If you were a regular reader/contributor to the p/p board, you would know that I have said more than once that I graduated from a small town public high school in East Tennessee and received my degree from a public university. My sons graduated from MBA.

 

In his latest message, itzme has eloquently outlined the point I was trying to make with my post. Please notice that I never said all public school supporters resent private schools and students. You are naive indeed my friend if you don't think resentment is out there based on often misguided accusations of elitism. In a way, your own post is a reflection of that fact.

 

The irony of all this is that many families who choose to send their children to private schools do so by making huge personal sacrifices. Contrary to popular belief, MBA and the other private schools have plenty of kids on campus from middle class families who live in modest neighborhoods. drive experienced vehicles, and have two parents working full time jobs to pay tuition. That is exactly where I am personally. It is a sacrifice my wife and I have made gladly because giving our children the best education available has always come ahead of our personal gratification.

 

In case you aren't aware of it, MBA and BA (itzme's school) are charter members of D2, so I don't think we are afraid of the challenge. I just happen to believe that all Tennessee high school athletes should have the opportunity to play together in a framework that balances competiton as fairly as possible. The athletic field should be a place where kids from all walks of life can come together, lay it all on the line physically and emotionally, and leave with mutual respect for each other.

 

To close, I also want to congratulate you on your financial success. Since you have so modestly chosen to share the details of your personal wealth with us, I hope you won't be offended if I ask you to consider sacrificing $12 to become a CoachT Plus member. Surely you have had $12 dollars worth of fun in almost a year of posting!

Edited October 19, 2003 by gobigred

[926]

Yes, I know which schools you guys support and I'm well aware they are "charter members" (makes it sound voluntary, doesn't it?) of D2. I posted my comments (and the vague income info) because the closer this split comes to a reality, there seems to be a trend of villification of the evil, jealous publics and their rogue open zones, and I wanted to assure you guys that the "financial jealousy" thing doesn't hold water...not at the 1A and 2A levels, where most of the damage is done. I'm completely in favor of cracking down on the open zone schools. In my eyes, they should be bundled in with the privates in the event there is a change. And I think that the publics should move back to 3 classes if the total split happens.

 

gobigred...I do business in Lawrenceburg, so I might just go by and drop off that $12 bucks to coachT, personally.

 

rollredroll...How can you take that as an elitist statement? Now, if I had said that I am better than most people because of this...THAT would be elitist. Didn't say it, didn't imply it and don't believe it. Besides, I'm not the one who was whining about the TSSAA being the only avenue by which the public school people could exert authority over the private school people. Now, having said this, I do regret having laid that out in this forum. I was a little bothered by some of the statements and wanted it to be known that geographical circumstances were the major stumbling block for the tremendous majority of 1A and 2A schools, not financial circumstances.

 

itzme...I'm sure my wife has contributed generously to the GDP of Williamson county over the past 10 years, you'll be happy to know.

 

The bottom line is that we can get on this board, beat each other up, point fingers, lay blame, call everyone who doesn't share our opinions an ignorant hypocrit, proclaim anyone who agrees with us a brilliant visionary with extensive insight and we still are going to have no effect upon the outcome of this decision. But it sure is fun trying, isn't it? Even if we already know the outcome and I know my side is going to win exclusively because my side has a more dillgent work ethic in regards to the task at hand. Hmmm...that sounds like I'm trying to draw a parallel to a perceived real life situation, doesn't it? Purely coincidental, I assure you.

[bbsesq]

Very true! This is the difference that bbsesq doesn't want to acknowledge... VERY FEW PEOPLE ELECT TO COME TO ERHS, unless you're trying to get away from Brainerd. It's true we have some good athletic programs but our facilities and overall reputation don't exactly "cry out" for people to flock to our doors. IN FACT, just the opposite is true! If we had all of the kids whose parents have withdrawn them from ERHS to go to Notre Dame, BBS, McCallie, and Baylor we would have a great football team!

 

Private schools and public schools with open zones should be required to play UP! It's only fair!

I freely admit that ER does not attract many kids or their parents.

 

I don't now why anyone with the wherewithal to send their kids to a private school would send their kids to a Hamilton County public school. Which is why Chattanooga has so many private schools.

 

I agree that private schools and open zone schools should play up. Like I said on here earlier, put ALL schools in one division with three classifications for regular season and divide each into two for playoffs. The winner of any state championship moves up until the next reclassification or until they win the state championship again, in which event they keep moving up.

 

The problem with my proposal is that the proponents of the split a cake walk every year and would not want to move up.

[rollredroll]

rollredroll...How can you take that as an elitist statement? Now, if I had said that I am better than most people because of this...THAT would be elitist. Didn't say it, didn't imply it and don't believe it. Besides, I'm not the one who was whining about the TSSAA being the only avenue by which the public school people could exert authority over the private school people. Now, having said this, I do regret having laid that out in this forum. I was a little bothered by some of the statements and wanted it to be known that geographical circumstances were the major stumbling block for the tremendous majority of 1A and 2A schools, not financial circumstances.

 

Fair enough. I didn't think the statement was germane to the conversation, nor do I think one's wealth, or lack thereof, confers any more or less weight to one's arguments/opinions on the site (and I do realize that you would agree). Let's move on.

 

I agree with you 100% about three public school classes in an outright split scenario. Class A will need a few more stalwarts after the private schools go to Division II.