Best wrestling?

[dblduce]

What part or area of the state has the best wrestling? Here are my pics:

 

1. Chattanooga/Cleveland

2. Nashville/Clarksville

3. Knoxville/Upper East TN

4. Memphis

[LovinIt]

I have to go with Chatt/Cleve, maybe because there are more teams.

[Drem2Achev]

Chatt. and Cleveland by far and away toughest. Nashville and suround area may be second. i think Knox. and East tn. are about even most years. with Nash. area.

[delaWarr]

LovinIt, The TSSAA listing for 2001 - 2005 Regions may hold the answer to the question offered in your suggested possible rationale for the Chattanooga/Cleveland area's supporting the best wrestling in Tennessee, i. e. "more teams."

 

The following was taken from the 2002 - 03 TSSAA list. It includes DI only. The inclusion of DII will change the numbers, but will not affect the balance among the regions a great deal. I got into this post before realizing that I didn't have all the data at hand that was needed for a complete picture. But this should serve as an indication of the balance of team numbers within the areas identified.

 

Region I - 13 teams

 

Dist. 1 - 8 teams

Dist. 2 - 5 teams

 

Region II - 20 teams

 

Dist. 3 - 10 teams

Dist. 4 - 10 teams

 

Region III - 11 teams

 

Dist. 5 - 5 teams

Dist. 6 - 6 teams

 

Region IV - 10 teams

 

Dist. 7 - 5 teams

Dist. 8 - 5 teams

 

Region V - 22 teams

 

Dist. 9 - 13 teams

Dist. 10 - 9 teams

 

Region VI - 18 teams

 

Dist. 11 - 9 teams

Dist. 12 - 9 teams

 

Region VII - 18 teams

 

Dist. 13 - 9 teams

Dist. 14 - 9 teams

 

Region VIII - 16 teams

 

Dist. 15 - 8 teams

Dist. 16 - 8 teams

 

 

 

Upper East 33 teams

South East 21 teams

Mid-State 58 teams

West-State 16 teams

 

The above stats are offered solely to give a clear understanding of how the region numbers compare with each other (DI only). The numbers most likely have changed for the current season with the addition of new teams...hopefully.

[sly]

LovinIt, It's not the numbers it's the quality.

[wrestlingfan]

dblduce - I agree with your placings of best wrestling areas. I sure hope though that everyone keeps improving because it can only make it more interesting. It is more fun to go to a game or a match and a "darkhorse" just to up and win the whole thing. Now, that's exciting. I think this year we just might see some darkhorses. I sure hope so. Let's keep it interesting!

[delaWarr]

Since no ground rules were established for determining just how any one of the identified geographic areas in the sport can claim "best wrestling", it allows each opinion offered to be bouyed by whichever information best justifies that opinion. Without offering an opinion, however, following is data from last year's DI State Tournament.

 

Note FYI:

 

Knoxville/ Upper East .... Regions 1, 2

Chattanooga/Cleveland(SE Tn) .... Regions 3, 4

Nashville, Clarksville (Mid-Tn) .... Regions 5, 6, 7

Memphis (West Tn) .... Region 8

 

Medals won by each Region, in descending order from highest number:

 

Region 5 ..... 16 (17 were in medal round, 1 did not receive medal)

Region 3 ..... 16

Region 7 ..... 13 (14 reached the medal rounds)

Region 2 ..... 10

Region 1 ..... 09 (10 reached the medal rounds)

Region 4 ..... 08

Region 8 ..... 06

Region 6 ..... 03

 

Summary of medals won by each "area of the state" (descending order) as identified by the original post:

 

Nashville/Clarksville (Mid-State) ..... 32 (33 qualified for medal rounds)

Chattanooga/Cleveland (Southeast) ..... 24

Knoxville/Upper East Tn ..... 19 (20 qualified)

Memphis (West Tn) ..... 06

 

Total points scored by all teams within each Region (descending order):

 

Region 3 ..... 463

Region 5 ..... 302.5

Region 7 ..... 288.5

Region 2 ..... 286

Region 4 ..... 274

Region 1 ..... 269

Region 6 ..... 220

Region 8 ..... 186

 

Summary of points scored in the DI State Tournament by each "area of the state" (descending order):

 

Nashville/Clarksville (Mid-State) ..... 811 Team points

Chattanooga/Cleveland (Southeast) ..... 737

Knoxville/Upper East Tn ..... 555

Memphis (West Tn) ..... 186

 

If a value of 6 points is given to 1st place, 5 points to 2nd place, etc. through 1 point for 6th place, following are the quality points scored for each region by the top six placers in that region (descending order):

 

Region 3 ..... 66

Region 5 ..... 56

Region 1 ..... 37

Region 2 ..... 35

Region 4 ..... 34 tie

Region 7 ..... 34 tie

Region 8 ..... 16

Region 6 ..... 13

 

Summary of quality points determined by individual placements of the wrestlers in each "area of the state":

 

Nashville/Clarksville (Mid-State) ..... 103 quality points

Chattanooga/Cleveland (Southeast) ..... 100

Knoxville/Upper East Tn ..... 72

Memphis (West Tn) ..... 16

 

All three of the above categories of comparison are the cumlative efforts of individual athletes within each region which was then combined into the generally accepted "areas of the state" as suggested by the originator of this thread.

 

Medals won in the 2003 DII State by "area of the state" (descending order):

 

Chattanooga (SE Tn) ..... 34

Nashville (Middle Tn) ..... 31

Memphis (West Tn) ..... 14

Knoxville (Upper East) ..... 05

 

The summary of DII State Tournament team points scored by the schools within each "area of the state" (descending order):

 

Nashville (Middle Tn) ..... 668

Chattanooga (SE Tn) ..... 613.5

Memphis (West Tn) ..... 277.5

Knoxville (Upper East) ..... 118.5

 

Following are quality points given the placements in the DII tournament as described previously in this post, by "area in the state" (descending order)

i. e. 1st place 6 points, 2nd place 5 points, etc. through 6th place 1 point:

 

Nashville (Middle Tn) ..... 127

Chattanooga (SE Tn) ..... 122

Memphis (West Tn) ..... 34

Knoxville (Upper East) ..... 10

 

Which "area of the state has the best wrestling" may add a little spice to our discussions, but just keep in mind that there are coaches and wrestlers in every area of the state working hard to be the best they can be. And when anyone improves, it elevates us all.

Edited November 12, 2003 by delaWarr

[mtnrasslin]

Dela, that is some analysis. I think many would have assumed that SE Tn would have come out on top here but not so. Mid State seems to have slightly more quality.

[sly]

DelaWarr, Great info but I would like to narrow things down just a bit. My stats are from the last 3 state tournaments DI.

 

Team Stats

................ Top 10 finishes.......Top 5 finishes.......Runner-Up.....Champions

Region 1.............3.............................1........................................................

Region 2.............1.......................................................................................

Region 3.............8.............................6..................................................3....

Region 4.............8.............................5............................3..........................

Region 5.............2.............................1........................................................

Region 6.............1.......................................................................................

Region 7.............5.............................2........................................................

Region 8.............2.......................................................................................

 

Individual Stats

..................... Finalist.................. Champions

Region 1..............7...............................6.......

Region 2..............5...............................5.......

Region 3.............27.............................15.......

Region 4.............16.............................10.......

Region 5..............9...............................1.......

Region 6..............5...............................2.......

Region 7..............7...............................1.......

Region 8..............6...............................2.......

 

I think that Regions 3 & 4 have clearly dominated the state tournament the last 3 years. You also had 3 regions(6,7,&8) combined for the Nashville area which of course would increase the numbers. However, if you were to match up the regions 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 and 7&8 you might find that the team stats would favor Regions 7&8 over Regions 5&6 and in the individuals stats Regions 1&2 have had more State Champions than Regions 5,6,7,& 8 combined in the last 3 years. Remember this is just for fun. Besides since no one knows what weight class anyone will be at this year we really don't have much to talk about anyway.

[ijtx]

Sly: Good work on your research on the Chattanooga surrounding metropolitan area. Here's another point to ponder: Ringgold, Georgia is a perennial state champ and they're closer to Chattanooga than Cleveland or Bradley County.

 

Plus the DI champ in state duals last year was Bradley County. The DII champ was McCallie. Not bad.

[delaWarr]

Sly, As the opening of my second post on this thread says, "...no ground rules...allows each opinion offered to be bouyed by whichever information best justifies that opinion." The original post on this thread identified the four geographic areas of the state that offer wrestling. These have been the generally accepted geographic areas ever since wrestling progressively expanded out of Chattanooga into these other areas. That declared grouping in the opening post dictated the grouping of regions in my second post. The choice of time-frame is arbitrary. Last year was chosen only because it is the closest time-wise to the present. If someone wanted to put the effort into it, the time-frame could be over 5 years, or 10, or 20, or since the first TSSAA State event.

 

In posting your info, you opted to use top ten team placements and individual finalists over three years. That appears to be as valid as any data available for supporting an opinion. I will just point out that points scored by the 3rd through 6th placers are included in the team placements table, yet these individuals are excluded on the individual table. In other words, 3rd through 6th contributions are used in support of one point of validation (team placements), but are excluded in the other point of validation (individual placements).

 

In your observation that the Nashville area includes "3 regions combined...which would of course increase the numbers," it's not clear to which numbers you refer, the participant numbers, or the placement numbers. In either case, I call your attention to your reply on this thread on Nov. 7 at 12:02, "It's not the numbers it's the quality." To support the quality angle, each region brings 4 wrestlers to the state per weight class. 6 wrestlers place. Therefore, if any "area of the state" has sufficient quality in any given year, it can shut out, completely, placement by any other region in any given weight class (The West Tn. area would be an exception. It could only shut the other areas out of four of the six placements).

 

I concur with you that participant numbers do not factor in when determining what we might loosely describe as the "best area". Quality does matter. The data shown in my last post reflects cumulative quality demonstrated by individual effort within the "areas of the state" as defined by the original poster. The post shows numbers only in regard to quality wrestling, not to participant numbers. Quality domination by any area was not evident in the individual State Tournaments last year. There is a separate post on this thread that refers to participant numbers within each "area of the state."

 

As you said, "This is just for fun", and I trust we all accept it in that manner. There is a lot more to this sport than just being "best", else it would have closed down long ago...though, there is a lot to be said for trying to get there.

Edited November 12, 2003 by delaWarr

[delaWarr]

A summary of the team points scored in the DII State Tournament by the teams within each "area of the state" was edited into the post on this thread dated Nov. 11 at 4:16 AM. The addition of that data allows the combination of DI and DII teams within the same "area of the state" which may give a more accurate reading of the depth and breadth of individual performance within each of the "areas".

 

The following is taken from the results of the 2003 Individual DI and DII State Tournaments.

 

MEDALS WON by individuals within the designated "areas of the state":

 

Nashville (Mid-Tn) ..... 63

 

DI ... 32

DII ... 31

 

Chattanooga (SE Tn) ..... 58

 

DI ... 24

DII ... 34

 

Knoxville (Upper East).... 24

 

DI ... 19

DII ... 5

 

Memphis (West Tn) ..... 20

 

DI ... 6

DII ... 14

 

TEAM POINTS scored by the teams within each "area":

 

Nashville (Mid Tn) ..... 1479

 

DI ... 811

DII ... 668

 

Chattanooga (SE Tn) ..... 1350.5

 

DI ... 737

DII ... 613.5

 

Knoxville (Upper East)..... 573.5

 

DI ... 555

DII ... 118.5

 

Memphis (West Tn) ..... 463.5

 

DI ... 186

DII ... 277.5

 

QUALITY POINTS from individual placements within each "area", i. e. 1st place is given 6 points, 2nd place - 5 points, etc. through 6th place - 1 point. The total value of Quality Points in each Tournament, DI and DII, is 294 points:

 

Nashville (Mid Tn) ..... 230

 

DI ... 103

DII ... 127

 

Chattanooga (SE Tn) ..... 222

 

DI ... 100

DII ... 122

 

Knoxville (Upper East) ..... 82

 

DI ... 72

DII ... 10

 

Memphis (West Tn) ..... 50

 

DI ... 16

DII ... 34

 

The Memphis/West Tn area DI is at a disadvantage because the area only brings 4 participants per weight class while 6 placements are awarded. The other three area's DIs bring 8 or more participants per weight. Knoxville/Upper East area DIIs may also be at a comparative disadvantage for scoring placement points.

 

The above data gives an idea of the distribution of the results of individual placements. It has not been offered to displace the importance of program achievements and successes, because that is where our greatest interests are. Hopefully, it offers a little broader view of the total picture.

Edited January 17, 2004 by delaWarr