1a

[GregC]

One way or the other, the face of Tennessee high school athletics is going to change after this next T$$AA vote. It has been said on this forum by someone whom I've come to respect for his unbiased opinions that he has shown in this debate{ELA} that the Virginia plan is going to come about, with or without a multiplier. Without a multiplier, it does nothing to address the concerns of the schools which supported a split as an option to address the inequities between the 'urban' privates and the 'rural' publics in 1A (and, to some extent in 2A). I know we are small, Ego. But we are 20% of the menbers of the T$$AA (40% if 2A is included).

 

A mutiplier would be the next best option to address this, but this 'Virginia plan" seems to be overkill.

[silverpie]

OOPs, I forgot St Andrew's and King's Academy. But don't they both play Division II? But CA and Zion are both in Maury County. I don't know where you are from or if you've ever been to this area(they are both in our basketball region), but Columbia is not exactly rural. Saturn plant, easy access to the Nashville metropolitan area by either I-65 or US 31 through Williamson Co, it's immediate northern neighbor. I consider CA and Zion to be in an urban area.

 

Frankly, this Virginia Plan would only make things worse, by discouraging playing up in sports where you're good (since that would also force you up in sports where you're no good). This is already in place for sports other than football (to give an example, I imagine Page might well choose to move up in volleyball only). The answer is to break the link in that respect for all sports, not to lash football to the same wheel.

Right, SAS and King's are really unusual cases (tiny, secluded boarding schools). Kind of the opposite extreme from a Brentwood Academy.

 

Anyway, when I think of urban/rural, I usually go by the Census Bureau definitions. Columbia is classed as a mini-city (the new term is "micropolitan statistical area") with a weak link to Nashville. Lebanon, on the other hand, is part of Nashville's immediate urban area.

 

There are also several private schools in small towns near here, but in general they choose to play in the Tri-State Christian Athletic Association rather than TSSAA.

[GregC]

1. Right, SAS and King's are really unusual cases (tiny, secluded boarding schools). Kind of the opposite extreme from a Brentwood Academy.

 

2. Anyway, when I think of urban/rural, I usually go by the Census Bureau definitions. Columbia is classed as a mini-city (the new term is "micropolitan statistical area") with a weak link to Nashville. Lebanon, on the other hand, is part of Nashville's immediate urban area.

 

3. There are also several private schools in small towns near here, but in general they choose to play in the Tri-State Christian Athletic Association rather than TSSAA.

 

1. We have played both of them in the past here in Perry Co, our first couple of years in football before we were placed in a region. You're right, they are unusual cases.

 

2. So, I'm wrong about Friendship being in a rural area. I used to go through there when I went to college in Cookeville, and didn't really seem as close (to me) to Nashville as Columbia did. Maybe I had been to Columbia so much it was just my impression? If you're from Hohenwald or Linden, Columbia seems like a big place. Even more so now(20 years later) after Saturn caused Columbia and Spring Hill to grow so much. In fact they seem to have bumped into each other The city limits have reached out and touched each other.

 

3. The more this debate goes on, the more I feel that this may be the route for the small rural publics to follow. Get out of the T$$AA all together and form our own group, similar to the Tri-State Christian group.

Edited December 24, 2003 by GregC

[krichunaka]

A split would change all of the public schools and D2 schools because of reclassification.

 

Do you change the majority because of an outcry by a minority? Sometimes yes, but normally No.

So, Ego, and I'm asking, certainly not telling..... are you suggesting that nothing will be done?

 

And is there an "escape clause" for the King's Academies and Grace Christian Academies.... at least until it can be determined just where they're headed, competitively speaking if a multiplier is enacted? Both of those, incidentally, are very classy orginizations; and schools I wouldn't want to see thrown to the wolves.

 

If it were us: ELA, EGO, pujo, silverpie, Baldcoach, Volunteer General, ie3, etc..... you get my drift....... Could we sit down and work this out? What I'm asking, in principle, is: Would we agree to disagree, then pass the buck, and hope that the single and double A schools will sit and wait until, when, 2009? Or is there a not-so-happy medium, but something they can do to contain an impending stampede?

 

I think we all realize that if the real voters could be reasonably certain that no one would cause a terrible calamity - for instance, forming individual orginizations and the like - ....I think it's reasonable to expect the January vote to uphold the status- quo. Ego, VG, pujo, Baldcoach, et al ....is that what you truly expect to happen?

 

And finally, if no change is voted in, will there be enough of an outcry to force another vote? Or, are we - public, private, Division 2 - are we collectively, a sinking ship?

[TheEgoHasLanded]

"But we are 20% of the menbers of the T$$AA (40% if 2A is included). "

 

No you are not 20% of the TSSAA and you are not 40% of the TSSAA if you include 2A. You forgot about D2 and even if you actually did make up 40 percent of the TSSAA schools, you do not make up 40% of the actual student enrollment across the state! The 5A, 4A, 3A, D2-AAA, and D2-AA schools are larger and have more students, athletes, coaches, boosters, teachers, etc. A change like this affects them more than it does you because it affects more people. When you try and change a problem that affects only a handful of small schools, but "hurts" the rest of the association...I have a problem with that.

 

Please do not think you are 20%, you aren't. The D2 schools are the ones who are really wanting the change...they want all those private schools to go D2, so traveling costs will go down, competetion will be better, and perhaps...they can all leave the TSSAA, they feel they are misrepresented...The D2 state championships don't even take place in Murfreesboro for football or basketball!

 

So, Ego, and I'm asking, certainly not telling..... are you suggesting that nothing will be done?

 

I'm not going to suggest anything. The TSSAA got embarrassed by the BA lawsuit and have to be careful what they do. They do not want to risk losing schools (BA tried to leave the TSSAA and get other schools to follow"

 

 

The TSSAA cares least about the small rural public 1a schools. They are small, they are rural, and they are only 1A . All the other classes are much bigger with exception to probably D2 but D2 brings in so much money through football (MBA, best team in the state; BA also draws well). Also they know the D2 schools will easily leave if you upset them.

 

I do not know what the future holds, I thought a split would come, but it didn't...so perhaps a multiplier, or perhaps nothing...I really don't care, I just get on here to clear the private school perception that some people have.

[silverpie]

As far as King's Academy goes, their escape clause is that they only have 85 students, so any reasonable multiplier would still leave them in the smallest class. SAS, at 196, is a closer case.

 

If it were us: ELA, EGO, pujo, silverpie, Baldcoach, Volunteer General, ie3, etc..... you get my drift....... Could we sit down and work this out? What I'm asking, in principle, is: Would we agree to disagree, then pass the buck, and hope that the single and double A schools will sit and wait until, when, 2009? Or is there a not-so-happy medium, but something they can do to contain an impending stampede?

 

If you guys want to have that meeting, I should be in Nashville the next two weekends for wrestling tournaments, or the weekend after that here in Chattanooga at the Central tournament.

[GregC]

"But we are 20% of the menbers of the T$$AA (40% if 2A is included). "

 

No you are not 20% of the TSSAA and you are not 40% of the TSSAA if you include 2A. You forgot about D2 and even if you actually did make up 40 percent of the TSSAA schools, you do not make up 40% of the actual student enrollment across the state! The 5A, 4A, 3A, D2-AAA, and D2-AA schools are larger and have more students, athletes, coaches, boosters, teachers, etc. A change like this affects them more than it does you because it affects more people. When you try and change a problem that affects only a handful of small schools, but "hurts" the rest of the association...I have a problem with that.

 

Please do not think you are 20%, you aren't. The D2 schools are the ones who are really wanting the change...they want all those private schools to go D2, so traveling costs will go down, competetion will be better, and perhaps...they can all leave the TSSAA, they feel they are misrepresented...The D2 state championships don't even take place in Murfreesboro for football or basketball!

 

So, Ego, and I'm asking, certainly not telling..... are you suggesting that nothing will be done?

 

I'm not going to suggest anything. The TSSAA got embarrassed by the BA lawsuit and have to be careful what they do. They do not want to risk losing schools (BA tried to leave the TSSAA and get other schools to follow"

 

 

The TSSAA cares least about the small rural public 1a schools. They are small, they are rural, and they are only 1A :justwrestle: . All the other classes are much bigger with exception to probably D2 but D2 brings in so much money through football (MBA, best team in the state; BA also draws well). Also they know the D2 schools will easily leave if you upset them.

 

I do not know what the future holds, I thought a split would come, but it didn't...so perhaps a multiplier, or perhaps nothing...I really don't care, I just get on here to clear the private school perception that some people have.

WE PAY THE SAME DUES TO BE A MEMBER OF THIS ORGANIZATION AS ANY OTHER SCHOOL IN THIS STATE! WE SHOULD BE TREATED AS EQUAL MEMBERS JUST LIKE THE RIVERDALES AND BA'S. WE ARE TIRED OF BEING TREATED AS THE RED-HEADED STEPCHILDREN OF TENNESSEE HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETICS!

[krichunaka]

As far as King's Academy goes, their escape clause is that they only have 85 students, so any reasonable multiplier would still leave them in the smallest class. SAS, at 196, is a closer case.

 

 

 

If you guys want to have that meeting, I should be in Nashville the next two weekends for wrestling tournaments, or the weekend after that here in Chattanooga at the Central tournament.

Howbout this: ie3 can meet you in Baileyton (North Greene County) and bring you up to the 1st annual "coacht at the Mat" luncheon.

 

Seriously, I don't pretend to have a clue as to how this could best be handled; I'd hate to see a lot of schools jump ship; a ship that will probably be sinking, and fast, if the Multiplier is agreed to.... or not.

 

Did they say they were meeting on January 9th? UH OH! My late father's birthday... and my X father-in-law.... but that's not all....It's also Richard Nixon's birthday.... :justwrestle:

[TheEgoHasLanded]

GregC

 

You do pay the same in dues...but you do not pay the same in gate money and playoff revenue.

 

That is why the NCAA cracks down on the smaller schools but refuses to give the powerhouses like Alabama the death penalty even though they repeatedly violate rules.

[silverpie]

WE PAY THE SAME DUES TO BE A MEMBER OF THIS ORGANIZATION AS ANY OTHER SCHOOL IN THIS STATE! WE SHOULD BE TREATED AS EQUAL MEMBERS JUST LIKE THE RIVERDALES AND BA'S. WE ARE TIRED OF BEING TREATED AS THE RED-HEADED STEPCHILDREN OF TENNESSEE HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETICS!

Actually, that's not true. Schools classed A for basketball/baseball/softball pay $150, AA $200, and AA $250. Division II schools pay as though they were classified by the same cutoffs. Junior highs pay $100 and middle schools $300.

[GregC]

Our vote counts the same as anybody elses.

[silverpie]

Our vote counts the same as anybody elses.

Which is to say, on two occasions--when your district elects its Legislative Councillor and its Board of Control member. I see one "small rural" school on each of those panels (Lewis County and Cascade respectively), two on the BoC if you count Sequatchie County, and no private school on either.

 

And do try to recall that your "20% of the TSSAA" in 1A is counting private schools.