5th Issue of TNRANKINGS

[BayouBear]

walkenvol,

 

You are very right. Animated coaching is not an exclusive DII trait. I just meant that as a group, the DII coaches, are oftentimes worth the price of admission.

 

I couldn't agree more that the actions of the coaches adds great flavor to a tight match. Like you, I think that it should be allowable for coaches to be animated as long as the action of the coach is not highly extreme, a major disruption or degrading to another team or referee. It would be a pity to see a coach tossed out of a match in the State Tournament because the referee decided to enforce a rule to the letter.

 

The group of coaches we are talking about (DI and DII) ALL live and breathe wrestling. They coach, plan, plot, figure, hope and pray before every big match. It is highly emotional. Fans are screaming. The juices are really flowing. A close call is made on the mat or there is a debatable situation. The person who wrote the rule is nuts if he thinks that any good coach can stay in his chair and keep his hands in his lap and his mouth shut.

[walkenvol]

Sly - You lost me on the difference in what we said. I didn't claim that you agreed with everything. My assumption of your stance was based on a number of your past posts stating that you support whatever decision your coach makes because he is the coach. Please accept my apologies if I have mistated.

 

My quote: "Unlike yourself, I don't SUPPORT anything the coaches do simply because they are the coaches" I don't support anything George Bush does simply because he is the president. I don't support every decision my pastor makes at my church. I do support the majority of all of their decisions. Not supporting everything doesn't mean I think they are doing poorly as a whole. Maybe I'm wrong on both accounts, but that's how I operate.

 

Your quote: "I must correct your assumpution that I always AGREE with the coach because he's the coach. If and when I'm asked my opinion on any issue I'll give it, but its only my opinion and the coach will do what he thinks is best for the team and I respect and SUPPORT the coach's decisions." You mean legman solicits opinions? That's a noval idea.

 

As for wrestling younger wrestlers at Soddy, again I have failed to communicate properly. McCallie didn't field a wrestler in 4 weight classes at the Soddy tourney; 107, 116, 164, and 279. To the best of my knowledge, they didn't have a healthy wrestler (JV or varsity) available at 107, 116, and 279. As for why no one at 164, I think I explained that before. My reference of support for forfeiting in the past was meant for past seasons that brought the huge outcry of foul mostly from the Baylor crowd. They quit throwing those stones after last season when their coaches had Timothy Moore forfeit to Ryan Scott in the semis of the D2 state tourney yet he continued to wrestle the remainder of the tourney.

 

Thank you for the interesting discussion.

[delaWarr]

There are as many variances in successful coaching as there are coaches who are successful. There will be similarities, but chances are there will about as many differences. Gordon Connell has won state championships with both public and private programs. He is in the thick of the top end once again. His ability to put together a competing program can't be questioned. He does it with regularity. I don't follow his program well enough now to comment on any strategic games he may play, but in the past his actions were dictated by what he felt were in the best interests of his program. How can his motives be judged by how we would do it, or how our favorite coach would do it? His successes make a loud statement for his decisions on behalf of his program, with or without the approval of us fans.

Edited January 27, 2004 by delaWarr

[jack o. hartz]

189- Revised

1. Michael Marable (Chris Bros)

2. Derek Walker (Baylor)

3. Flynt Rudolph (McCallie)

4. Kyle Adams (Father Ryan)

5. Charlie Stinchfield (Notre Dame)

6. Greg Stevens (SAS)

Charlie Stinchfield is the 160lb starter for Notre Dame

[sly]

walkenvol, Sorry if I cofussed the both of us. You wrote one thing I guess I read another. It seems to be happening alot with me these days. Regardless, you now know how I feel. As far as legman asking for opinions I don't thinks he feels he's above getting input from those who's opinions he respects. With that said, he is the head coach and makes all the final decisions that pertain to the Bradley Wrestling Program. Your welcome for the interesting discussion. See you in Clarksville.

[coachmasters]

Has Tim Pease(Clarksville) and Paul Campbell(Soddy Daisy) at 189 wrestled yet? If so who won? If not what is the reasoning for Tim having the number one ranking? I've had the oppertunity to wrestle both wrestlers and Campell just seem like alot better wreslter. Not to take anything away from Tim because he and Campbell have both beaten me. However Campbell is just alot stronger and faster than Tim happens to be. Good luck to both wrestlers at state this year in DI.

Tim Pease beat Paul Campbell at Brentwood. It looked as though Pease just wanted it more.

[best_of_the_west]

Father Ryan has wrestled great duals competition, but none of it has been in-state. There's no way around that one. It's hard to move up in team rankings, when you don't beat any good teams at duals. Like I said, it's not Father Ryan's fault. They've done everything they were supposed to do. Fortunately, they will have that opportunity in two weeks. Good luck to them.

[texas23]

Best,,,

 

How can you say a schools schedule is not their fault?

[best_of_the_west]

I meant the ranking isn't there fault. One might say that it's Baylor's fault that they are not ranked #2 anymore, because they lost to McCallie, but Father Ryan has not lost to anyone from Tennessee. That's to say that they simply have not had the chance to prove themselves at duals against in-state competition, besides two short-handed Collierville and Franklin teams. However, this could also work the other way, by saying that if they had wrestled any strong teams, they would have lost by now. That's not how I see it, but it may be how tnranker sees it. MBA will be their biggest test within the state. A good showing there could prove to be just what they need to pass Baylor, but then again, I'm not tnranker. He might let them sit until states. Who knows?

Edited January 27, 2004 by best_of_the_west

[texas23]

Best,,,

 

I should have known better......I did not follow you on that one. I agree about the ranking/ranker not in the teams hands.

[walkenvol]

delaWar - "How can his motives be judged by how we would do it, or how our favorite coach would do it? His successes make a loud statement for his decisions on behalf of his program, with or without the approval of us fans."

 

IN NO WAY AM I ASSOCIATING THIS STATEMENT TO COACH CONNELL. So if I understand you correctly, Indiana should have never gotten rid of Bobby Knight? He had a long track record of success. Are you advocating that "the ends justify the means"?

 

IMHO, winning isn't the sole standard by which coaches should be judged. There are some great coaches who aren't in a situation condusive to winning similar to Bay, McC, Soddy, and Bradley. These coaches make a difference in the lives of the young men on their team and create life long relationships. Are they bad coaches?

 

It's easy to say "I support the coach" if your team is near the top and you feel that the coach is treating your son good. Remove either of those and how blindly supportive does everyone remain.

 

I contend that there are some unaceptable actions that make a bad coach regardless of the win/loss record in wrestling or any sport.

- don't strike the players

- don't curse the players

- don't berate or belittle the players in front of their teammates

- don't cheat; follow the rules to the letter of the law, take the higher road

- don't allow outside politics to influence playing time or position

 

Now Sly, if legman did any of these things above (I'm sure he doesn't) would you still support him solely because he was the coach? Your younger son is growing and apparantly have trouble making 105. What if legman told him that if he didn't make it for the rest of this season he was off the team permanently? What if legman decided there were no longer going to be wrestle offs to determine the Bradley lineup, that he would tell you where you were allowed to wrestle? What if the coach did like John Smith has at Ok St? Would you still remain supportive?

[Sommers]

delaWar - "How can his motives be judged by how we would do it, or how our favorite coach would do it? His successes make a loud statement for his decisions on behalf of his program, with or without the approval of us fans."

 

IN NO WAY AM I ASSOCIATING THIS STATEMENT TO COACH CONNELL. So if I understand you correctly, Indiana should have never gotten rid of Bobby Knight? He had a long track record of success. Are you advocating that "the ends justify the means"?

 

IMHO, winning isn't the sole standard by which coaches should be judged. There are some great coaches who aren't in a situation condusive to winning similar to Bay, McC, Soddy, and Bradley. These coaches make a difference in the lives of the young men on their team and create life long relationships. Are they bad coaches?

 

It's easy to say "I support the coach" if your team is near the top and you feel that the coach is treating your son good. Remove either of those and how blindly supportive does everyone remain.

 

I contend that there are some unaceptable actions that make a bad coach regardless of the win/loss record in wrestling or any sport.

- don't strike the players

- don't curse the players

- don't berate or belittle the players in front of their teammates

- don't cheat; follow the rules to the letter of the law, take the higher road

- don't allow outside politics to influence playing time or position

 

Now Sly, if legman did any of these things above (I'm sure he doesn't) would you still support him solely because he was the coach? Your younger son is growing and apparantly have trouble making 105. What if legman told him that if he didn't make it for the rest of this season he was off the team permanently? What if legman decided there were no longer going to be wrestle offs to determine the Bradley lineup, that he would tell you where you were allowed to wrestle? What if the coach did like John Smith has at Ok St? Would you still remain supportive?

I missed this one. What did John Smith do?

 

soms