show me the numbers

[Bighurt]

lastly. never interpret any rash statements of mine as direct criticism of cpa. ya'll are one of the classiest schools in the tssaa.

lazarus,

I appreciate the kind words. I agree with Baldcoach by the way. Your research and analysis was awesome.

 

Let me clarify one point. When I said it was more of a rural/urban issue, that was because almost all private schools have the advantage of being urban and not having to draw students from a large geographic area.

 

Everyone has an opinion and sees things through the grid of their own experiences. Change is coming whether we like it or not.

 

I will say I sat next to a Rockwood fan (TankTalk) today at the Rockwood/CPA game and we had a great time watching 2 teams compete hard. I also talked to Herb Luker from Collinwood and he was enjoying the games as much as we were.

 

People is pretty much the same whether they come from Rockwood or Collinwood or Lawrenceburg or Nashville. Although if they come from Lawrenceburg, they do drink their SunDrop warm!

[robjim]

Dittos too, Laz, on a job well done. Also appreciate those kind words.

 

I do want to take issue with you on one point. I don't know of any college's fans who would be happy with a .625 winning percentage in bowl games. ( a big orange place about 3hours east of Nashville, comes to mind)

[silverpie]

For those of us 3 hours west of Knoxville, .000 in bowl games would be an improvement

[1AMAN]

Football State Champions since going to 5 classes sorted by Davidson, Shelby, Hamilton, and Knox vs rest of state.

 

1A

Record 5-6

 

2A

Record 7-4

 

3A

Record 5-6

 

4A

Record 4-7

 

5A

Record 2-9

 

Grand Total

Urban-23

Rural- 32

 

If you add in the runners-up, the participants in the state championship games comes in as

Urban-41

Rural-69

 

Of course, this is a narrow definition of Urban. I think you'd have to throw in some of the counties around the big four in as urban schools as well, but that would be subjective. I could see Rutherford and Williamson counties as being considered urban, but are Robertson or Tipton? Bradley? Blount? Sevier?

 

If you take it as the Big 4 and the counties bordering the Big 4, it looks like this.

total/ champs/ runner up

1A 11-11/ 8-3/ 3-8

2A 12-10/ 8-3/ 4-7

3A 17-5/ 10-1/ 7-4

4A 19-3/ 11-0/ 8-3

5A 21-1/ 11-0/ 10-1

 

total 80-30

 

Looks like there may be something to this urban vs rural theory, at least in football. It gets worse as you move up in size, but the number of rural schools in each classification goes down as you go up, so that could explain that. Of course, my main area of concern is 1A so I looked at that area the closest. By this last definition of Urban, Trousdale Co is the only rural school to win the state championship in 1A.(So Pitt is in Marion Co., so it was considered an urban school. See what I mean by subjectiveness in the definition of urban?) And all the private schools in Division 1 are in urban areas except for Columbia Academy & Zion Christian(Maury), USJ, Jackson Christian,and Trinity Christian(Madison) ,and Clarksville Academy(Montgomery), and only USJ(3 times) and Clarksville Academy have went to the championship game from this group. Of course, it could be argued that Montgomery and Maury could be considered as parts of the Nashville urban area,and Madison could be an urban area in and of itself as well. Just thinking about stuff, its Thursday and I was bored again.

[CYJacket]

Let me clarify one point. When I said it was more of a rural/urban issue, that was because almost all private schools have the advantage of being urban and not having to draw students from a large geographic area.

 

Everyone has an opinion and sees things through the grid of their own experiences. Change is coming whether we like it or not.

 

I will say I sat next to a Rockwood fan (TankTalk) today at the Rockwood/CPA game and we had a great time watching 2 teams compete hard. I also talked to Herb Luker from Collinwood and he was enjoying the games as much as we were.

 

People is pretty much the same whether they come from Rockwood or Collinwood or Lawrenceburg or Nashville. Although if they come from Lawrenceburg, they do drink their SunDrop warm!

 

 

Glad you clarified that point. The privates also draw the better, more affluent students. This is an advantage whether it be test scores, or football scores.

 

I spoke with my #1 Rockwood fan today and he said the dogs were called off early by CPA and it could have been worse. Don't know.

 

As for SunDrop © my wife's from Fayetteville and mad cause she can't get it much here.

College roomate was from Lawrenceburg and he drank it hot (especially with russian potato wine). Think he would drink b--r hot if he had to.

[tnfisher]

it is obvious, from all the data, that there are significant advantages related to CITY size, independent of the size of the school. however, by some strange twist, the 4 largest cities, as a group, seem to be at a disadvantage.

plotting against a timeline, i find that the success of public schools, in any city, declines as the success of the privates, in the same city, grows. some vital resource, be it athletes, money, parents, or whatever, is being siphoned off by the privates. (data not displayed-how much crap do you want to wade thru!?)

 

a few teams distort the numbers. brentwood academy for the privates, and south pitt/trousdale for the "D" publics. with those eliminated, the same picture presents itself, except with the D publics boasting a horrendous record.

Great info laz. Thanks for all the hard work. I am probably not intelligent enough to add anything. You sum it up superbly in the above quote.

[youshouldstay25]

The Urban 1a's are very nearly all private schools. They evolve for various reasons. One reason is that parents do not wish to send their child to some large, impersonal public school with "problems" (real or imagined) so they pull their kid, if they can afford it or the school they choose gives a scholarship of sometype, to the privates. This has an effect on the publics in two ways. The first is these student are the best and the brightest, (which skews test scores) and secondly, they probably have some athletic ability. Smart and athletic makes for a good ball team, no special ed. students here, they can actually learn more than the fundementals. Then the ball team gets better because they can hire, as someone stated above, more coaches, pay more for proven coaches, and the facilities are usually better. Again, the better students will work more a little more than special ed. students because maybe they see a future.

 

Just an opinion, not backed up with numbers as the title of this thread indicates, and Baldcoach, General and Dalton will all probably disagree. Welcome to America.

i am very glad that you included that last paragraph. cpa, for one, and i would venture to say the majority of the single A privates have ulterior motives pertaining to religion et cetera when it comes to their education and admission policies. these schools do not steal all of the public schools' top students and athletes and it is absurd to suggest that they do. the issue is indeed more of a rural/metro one than a public/private one.

[Baldcoach]

The Urban 1a's are very nearly all private schools. They evolve for various reasons. One reason is that parents do not wish to send their child to some large, impersonal public school with "problems" (real or imagined) so they pull their kid, if they can afford it or the school they choose gives a scholarship of sometype, to the privates. This has an effect on the publics in two ways. The first is these student are the best and the brightest, (which skews test scores) and secondly, they probably have some athletic ability. Smart and athletic makes for a good ball team, no special ed. students here, they can actually learn more than the fundementals. Then the ball team gets better because they can hire, as someone stated above, more coaches, pay more for  proven coaches, and the facilities are usually better. Again, the better students will work more a little more than special ed. students because maybe they see a future.

 

Just an opinion, not backed up with numbers as the title of this thread indicates, and Baldcoach, General and Dalton will all probably disagree. Welcome to America.

i am very glad that you included that last paragraph. cpa, for one, and i would venture to say the majority of the single A privates have ulterior motives pertaining to religion et cetera when it comes to their education and admission policies. these schools do not steal all of the public schools' top students and athletes and it is absurd to suggest that they do. the issue is indeed more of a rural/metro one than a public/private one.

 

I agree with most of both of these. Let me say again that the small privates DO have some special ed students. I know for a fact that most of them hire at least one special needs educator. But I would venture to guess that there are not as many as in most public schools. It would be an interesting topic to investigate...

 

Also most small divI privates DO NOT have better facilities. Neither do they pay their coaches more. They are usually in cities where there are more coaches available to hire/willing to move.

Edited March 20, 2004 by Baldcoach