Don't let the TSSAA get away with this one

[Dawgwriter]

I disagree college teams lose in their conference tournaments and still play in the ncaa tournament whats the difference a district tournament is essentially the same thing as a conference tournament

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Good point. I know there was at least one team last year that won a title that didn't win either the district or regional tournament. I can also remember another team many years ago that finished fourth in the district tourney and went on to win the title. That doesn't lessen the meaning of the title at all. If anything it makes it a greater accomplishment. Winning a title isn't just about individual games, it's about survival and which team has the most perserverence.

 

There are always two sides to every story, but we have a great setup as it is. I hope it can basically be left intact.

[WriteStuff]

The ideas presented here are OK, but keep in the mind the TSSAA is not asking anyone for their ideas on how to make improvements to the system or what changes to make. They will be voting not only for a change, but also for the format they have decided is in the best interests of the TSSAA -- not the kids. If the Board of Control votes for a change, it will almost surely change to the format they have come up with, which is: Substate winners play at the pre-determined homecourt for the right to go to Murfreesboro.

Don't lose sight of this fact: The battle is not one to resist change; the battle is to keep the Board of Control from making a change that would affect our children in a negative way.

[salty]

Just learned:

 

TSSAA made over $ 621,000 from Basketball tournaments in fy 2004.

 

They paid out $ 249,999 in attorney fees.

 

The executive director is paid more than $ 110,000.

 

Food for thought.

 

Public Info on any non-profit (TSSAA) organization is available at guidestar.org

[WriteStuff]

$110,000???

What does the average school teacher make?

[Dawgwriter]

$110,000???

What does the average school teacher make?

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Higher pay in some systems throw the statewide average a bit out of whack, but I'd day a fair average would be $30,000-$35,000, depending on experience, education, position. Starting pay for most systems (at least rural ones) is well below $30,000, I believe. I may be a little on the low side, but not much.

[marcvols]

They can reduce the number of teams, increase the number of teams, etc.; it doesn't matter. They will not make more money until they create interest in the sport. They can make excuses about the NCAA tournament being at the same time, too high of rent,etc., but the fact remains that people are not coming to watch the teams there under the current format. If the format isn't working, it needs to be changed. People can talk about college tournaments (where teams lose and advance), but don't lose sight of the fact that it's usually the conference tournament champion that gets the automatic bid. The interest in the NCAA tournament is not created by hoping that the best two teams on paper play for the title. Most would agree that the interest in the tournament is created in the first and second rounds when most anything can and usually does happen. Having to play a team 4 or 5 times in a year to win a regular season title, and various tournament titles is ridiculous. In my opinion, that scenario is not good for the game - because it cheapens early victories. I know that last year Bolivar had to beat Jackson Northside multiple times; Temple and Grace were on the same path. Tournaments are not about having the "so-called" best teams playing for the championship; they are about the hottest teams with the survive and advance mentality playing. I also remember several years ago when White County and Columbia Centeal were in the same scenario; Columbia had beaten White Co. three times in a four week span and then lose to them in the state finals (10 days later) and White Co. is State Champions. That is a crazy outcome to me; a team shouldn't have to repeatedly beat the same team and that's what happens in the Tennessee system. I'm all about second chances, but this is ridiculous. Usually the teams that advance are the very talented teams from the metropolitan areas; the fact is that they will not have large followings. Anybody that has been to the state tournament knows who has the large followings and who doesn't. Our system does not follow a traditional format of others and reportedly is not being successful. Bottom line is that these tournaments do have to generate money and evidently ours is not. Many other states run successful tournaments with different, more traditional, formats than Tennessee. The question to ask is, "If our format is so fair, well-attended, and fiscally positive, why aren't other states doing the same thing?"

Edited January 8, 2005 by marcvols

[dawgluva]

Let's not forget they are talking about losing money for BOTH (boys/girls) tournaments. I think you have to do something about the down time between the boys sub-state and the state tourney. That is why attendance is slipping, there is a week and 1/2 between your excitement about winning a sub-state and playing in state tourney, all so the girls can have their tourney first. Girls have it great, sub-state win on Sat. night and state tourney on Wed. Boys get screwed. I think you could have both tourneys during same time (girls in boro/boys in nashville (belmont/lipscomb??) and be fine. Yes Mr. $1000 suit would have to work a little harder, yes there is a chance that a school could have both teams in tourney at same time, yes our so-called media would have to work a little harder as well, and yes it would cause some people hardship over deciding which tourney to attend, but let's face it, in our great state you are either a girls fan or a boys fan, there aren't that many out there that go to both tourneys. There is a way to do this without taking a great experience/memory away from a kid,school,and community. My idea probably isn't the answer but its food for thought.

[salty]

They are NOT losing money on basketball tournaments. They are making money. A lot of it (Over $ 600,000). Just not enough to suit (no pun intended) them evidently. Their basketball expenses are not as great as you may believe.

 

They would like for basketball to help pay for some of their other expenses.

Edited January 8, 2005 by salty

[lazarus]

i agree that there is a problem with declining attendance at the state tournaments. having been there the last 25 years, there is no missing it. however, the decline is not in the "end zone" crowds that come with the teams, the decline is in the middle, where the people used to come just to watch the tournament.

 

what i disagree with is dismantling the tournament as a solution. the state tournament product is a good one. it is suffering from inadequate marketing. the teutons, bristlies, and predictors have gone after the sports market aggressively. and unless the tssaa responds, the pros will continue to steal their customer base. eliminating (what i consider) one of the best state tournaments in the country will not get the fans back.

 

whatever it takes to get their share of favorable publicity on talk radio sports shows, and in the papers, the tssaa needs to do. obviously the right attention can be bought, the predilectors do not get so much press because of the immense popularity of hockey in middle tennessee.

 

the tennessee state high school tournaments (as they are) are the best buy anywhere, for your sports dollar. there is more drama, more excitement, and more emotion in one day of either tournament, than in a season of professional sports. yet the whole tournament costs less than a single professional game. if you have the best product, and the best price, it is a pretty poor job of marketing to go out of business.

[NWTennSports]

You want interest??  Create a system where there is an opportunity for a cinderella.  Tournament play is not about the best two teams on paper or on talent playing for the championship; it's about survive and advance.  I've said it before and I'll say it again; allowing teams to lose and advance is silly.  Given multiple opportunities, the most talented teams will eventually win.  Typically, these teams are from metropolitan areas, and the fact is:  these schools do not typically have much fan support.  Fan support comes from teams who have not been to state in a while and from smaller communities.  I've never seen a state where you can practically pick half the eight team field or more in each classification before the tournament starts, as you can in Tennessee.  Upsets in the early rounds don't matter, because of the multiple chances given to advance.

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That's mirrors what I have said for many years. ... Under the current format, a team can lose THREE TIMES in the postseason and still advance to the state tournament, as long as you lose the right three games (district semis and consolation, and regional finals). That's a joke. .... One reason postseason in general is not as big anymore is because teams keep on playing win or lose. Why go watch Monday's night's game when we'll be playing Thursday if we lose and Friday if we win? Insane. When something has the appearance of never ending, people lose interest. .... And, quite frankly, the entertainment dollar is stretched too thin nowadays with all the games and gadgets kids and adults can purchase. For several years, the suits at ABC wondered why Monday Night Football was losing ratings. They changed broadcasters over and over, jazzed up the pregame stuff, turned Hank Jr. into a Heavy Metal man and have even tried to add sex appeal on the sideline. But, the reason MNF was losing ratings was because of ESPN, Fox Sports, Cable and Digital TV, Stadium Seating movie theaters, computers and their many games, on and on. .... In today's world, you can't just throw out a product and hope people buy it. You can't just say, "Here's the state tournament. Enjoy." You have to sell it, push it, promote it, get the host community deeply involved and get all the state's other communities involved as well. The T$$AA has to get out and take a refresher course on the state of Tennessee. Find something each community does well and build a little sideshow around it at the tournament. For instance, have a luncheon sponsored by the Strawberry Festival in Humboldt, of course serving strawberry-inspired dishes. Give free tickets to the city's festival members and offer special prices on tournament tickets to the community. .... And, it needs to be a year-long promotional effort. When was the 2005 Rose Bowl parade? Jan. 1, 2005. When did the committee begin working on the 2006 parade? Jan. 2, 2005. It takes work to make something meaningful and worthwhile. .... The state tournament needs to be a statewide event with the whole state involved. So, in essence, the state tournament needs to get bigger, not smaller.

[Svebakken]

How about having a 16 team state tournament.  You take the top two teams from each region in boys and girls.  You have two sites (east and west) for the "sweet sixteen" and "elite eight" games.  The boys and girls play at the same site thurs-sat. first week.  Then you come together the next weekend and have a Final Four with both boys and girls in Murfreesboro on Fri and Sat.  This allows more teams to compete in the state tournament, without watering down the teams.  It plays both boys and girls at the same site and is on the weekend to help attendance.  It also allows you to rotate which regions match up in the first round so that you do not have to play the same teams every year as it now is in the substate games.  Also you are playing at a nuetral site in the sweet sixteen and teams whose gym is not large enough don't have to worry about not being able to host a sub-state game.  What does everyone think?

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Tigerball, I think that actually does sound like a good idea, that would definitely boost attendance by locals. You could find some nice neutral sites from some college teams or something like that, to give it the bigger gym state tourney atmosphere. Also, the thing I like about this, that I dislike about other ideas, is that this format could still allow teams from the same district to play each other for a state title if they are the 2 best teams. That is if you switched up the Final Four matchups. Anyways, I just thought I would say I liked your idea there.

[gomab2]

I think it would be tragic to have any less than 8 teams in the State tourney...

 

BUT...

 

If you want to see a model that works, go to Kentucky... There are no classes, and 16 teams go to Rupp Arena for the State... It is a WILD atmosphere each day, and incredible support...