Refs

[acess]

I agree and well stated.  I think sometimes the officials call the games according to who is better (ability, record, tradition, etc.).  I also feel the game is called by the scoreboard.  Many times a foul is not called at the beginning of the game when the score may be close.  But later, the team that is far ahead may get whistled for a handcheck or not shoot freethrows when they have been mugged.  I understand some of this.  But, officials job is to officiate the game for 32 minutes no matter the score.  Not bitter about anything, just stating my opinion.

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My daughter who is a strong/tall player has actually been on the floor, waiting on the tip-off and had a ref. walk up beside her and say "I'll be keeping an eye on you". And sure enough she seemed to be held to a different standard during that game than some of the other girls. I think this happens a lot, maybe not intentionally but if it were called to these Refs attention, then maybe they would make an effort to "watch themselves".

[sportsradiotn]

I saw a pair of games this year and the foul total was incredible - 69 fouls in the girls game and 50 in the boys. The games started at 2:00 in the afternoon and ended at 6:35!

[HARPETHBOOSTER]

I think the problem is partially a reflection of society in general. We have became an impatient, spiteful and easily aggitated people.

 

We demand perfection, see the game with blinders on, immediately start looking for a goat when things dont go our way and are unmerciful in our attacks.

 

The refs sense the attacks and retaliate with the weapons they have at hand.

 

We keep score and forgiveness is not easily given.

 

Its road rage in the gym. The only solution I see is to hire shaolin monks to officiate.

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I don't think we are after world peace, just officials whose skin is thicker than their glasses

[Sidetrain]

I officiated for several years. Jr Pro, Jr High, Freshman, JV and High School. I understand the job and was told by others I was pretty good at it. I spoke with one of my "Old" colleagues last week. He is/was not only a great high school official but a college official as well. He is also one of the most honorable men I have ever known. I simply asked "what’s up with the officials this year?" He looked at me and drew a deep breath. "I don't know". He said. "It's getting worse each year." 

The game has changed so much. Speed has been the most significant change. I graduated high school in 1979. I was an official from 87-95. Having 4 children that have played and are playing various sports I see more poorly officiated games than well officiated ones. Some of it is lack of training, some of it lack of knowledge. But what I am seeing more and more of at the high school level is an official becoming the reason FOR the game. I was trained by the BEST in TN, Street, Loudon, Tracy and some really good officials whose names have long slipped my mind. #1 lesson, “You are here to administer the game not BE the game”. I have never believed that if you lose a game by 10 or less points it was an officials fault. Missed free throws, gim'me shots and bad plays on a team's part should have more than made up for the 10 or less points and any HUMAN error I might have made in the late stages of a game. I am seeing more and more games being influenced from the opening tip by the officiating. One team being allowed to harass ball handlers, post players with holding and pushing that looks like 90's NBA style. Players aren’t stupid, they adapt. When I played I got away with what I could and knew I crossed the limit when I was whistled for the foul. From that point on I would play to the limit. If my opponent was allowed to play and foul harder I would return such play. But when one team is held in check while the other is allowed to run amuck, that’s not right. I saw a coach warned to sit after a technical foul. He did. He behaived himself and had very little to say from that point. After a basket by his opponent in the late stages of a close game he stands up and signals a timeout. The "T" official runs across the court and says "I warned you, you're ejected!" One official closest to the coach who had already signaled the timeout tried to explain to his elder that he had just called time out. He would not have it. He ejected that coach for no good reason. This started the crowd and well all you know what broke lose. Because this official thought he was bigger than the game. That is what I think is wrong these days.

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Great post my Friend thumb . We have talked about this all season

[ballfanwm]

My daughter who is a strong/tall player has actually been on the floor, waiting on the tip-off and had a ref. walk up beside her and say "I'll be keeping an eye on you".  And sure enough she seemed to be held to a different standard during that game than some of the other girls.  I think this happens a lot, maybe not intentionally but if it were called to these Refs attention, then maybe they would make an effort to "watch themselves".

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I agree completely, the refs do watch some players more closely than others---post players more so than other positions. To say that they do not control the game is not always right. For example, a player fouls within the first minute or two of the first quarter, gets a second foul a few minutes later (might be or might not be) then that player is out the rest of the first half. Then at the beginning of the second half, that ref is "watching" and calls a picky foul from 30 feet away, and the player is out for the rest of that quarter. All this happening while other players are knocking, banging, and riding piggy-back. Yes, They do watch some more closely than others and yes its getting worse every year.

[gshoops75]

Simply put, it is becoming a question of supply and demand......there are not enough officials staying with it to weed out the good from the bad, therefore if you stink at it, you still get to keep doing it.  That is what is killing the profession......Just one man's opinion..... thumb

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Talk about hitting the nail on the head. This is the bottom line. I started working through a local association this year (doing jr high and jv), following a job change having coached and taught the past few years. The associations are BEGGING for new members. They will literally take anyone (remember, the exam is open book), put stripes on them, and send them out to start calling. Granted, to call varsity games you have to have been selected to "move up" to varisty and pass a closed book exam - but there is no real formal training.

So, as far as the idea of accountability, it's tough to hold someone accountable in a situation where the leverage lies with the official rather than with the association (ie, they need him more than he needs them). If you're looking for a real-life comparison, look to the teaching field. There are tons of great teachers out there, just like there are tons of good officials. But, why do you think there are some situations where teachers get away with doing almost nothing in the classroom in terms of instruction? Often, schools can't find people to fill the jobs they have open, much less get rid of ineffective existing teachers in order to find someone better. They pretty much have to settle for what they've got. It's because there are application files that are EMPTY. How can you hold someone accountable, tell them they need to shape up or they'll be gone, whenever there is no competition for their spot?

For the sportswriter that said the analogy was wrong about kids not being held accountable for not blocking out, well I agree with you. But that only works because there is a large number of warm, willing bodies to take the place of a player who doesn't get the job done. Same with coaches; they can be held accountable because they know if they don't get it done, there is a deep applicant pool waiting for their job.

[PowerSet]

First of all, one has to know all the facts about a game before judging it. It is true that sometimes a team be called for many more fouls than an opponent. Most times, the strategy of the game is the reason. A few years back, I was coaching a girls team and at half-time the fouls were something like 13 against us and 3 against our opponent. Our fans were yelling at the referees to "call it both ways." What the fans failed to realize is that I had my team pressing and playing an aggressive man-to-man defense while the other team was playing a zone. I never complained about the officiating because I knew that the strategy I decided to employ was the reason, not the referees being biased. I'm sure there have been cases where an official has blown a call, but most of the time, the referees are just calling what they see. Besides, I highly doubt that any of us on this board have never made a mistake doing our jobs. I know I've made many.

 

That being said, it is true that the number of good referees has gone down the past few years. When the vererans are retiring, there are not many waiting to fill their shoes. There are still some great ones out there, and some good young ones. The problem is the amount of respect that officials are given, mostly by fans. I mean, would you want a job where you know you are going to be yelled at, berated, booed, called every name on Earth, cursed at, have your family degraded, and even threatened? All for about $80 a night? It's no wonder referees are getting harder to come by. I wouldn't do it. It's not worth it.

 

Most fans don't even realize that officials are doing a favor to the players, coaches, and yes, even the fans by calling games. What if the referees association decided that it wasn't worth the trouble and just stopped working? The games wouldn't be played.

 

The next time you want to complain about an official and blame a game on bad calls, look at your team's stat sheet. If rebounds, free throws, and turnovers dont tell the story, then maybe, just maybe, you have the right to complain. Until then, thank an official for doing his or her job so that we all can enjoy high school sports.

 

By the way, I'm not an official, not related to an official, have no desire to be an official, and was NOT held at gunpoint by an official and forced to write this. thumb

[mtnman]

Foul count is not a good way to judge an official. It MAY be an indication of a poor officiating job but could also be the style of play. (as previously said)

 

A team also has to foul at the end to stop the clock. So team A wins 65-60 over team B.

 

Team A has 5 fouls in the second half and team B has 20. Is that bad officiating?

 

I have seen some very unprofessional things done by refs. I saw one tell a cheerleader to shutup because her team was down by like 20. She was not talking to the ref he was just fed up with the game.

 

They also through fans out pretty easily and actually talk to fans. If a fan threatens you, they could be thrown out but don't go over and start talking to the fan and telling them to shutup. Ref the game.

 

On the other hand, fans are awefull at some games. They go way over the top but I think schools have to deal with this. I have seen AD's and principals and/or other parents say something to their obnoxious parents. Schools have to get control of their parents.

[options86]

First of all, one has to know all the facts about a game before judging it.  It is true that sometimes a team be called for many more fouls than an opponent.  Most times, the strategy of the game is the reason.  A few years back, I was coaching a girls team and at half-time the fouls were something like 13 against us and 3 against our opponent.  Our fans were yelling at the referees to "call it both ways."  What the fans failed to realize is that I had my team pressing and playing an aggressive man-to-man defense while the other team was playing a zone.  I never complained about the officiating because I knew that the strategy I decided to employ was the reason, not the referees being biased.  I'm sure there have been cases where an official has blown a call, but most of the time, the referees are just calling what they see.  Besides, I highly doubt that any of us on this board have never made a mistake doing our jobs.  I know I've made many.   

 

That being said, it is true that the number of good referees has gone down the past few years.  When the vererans are retiring, there are not many waiting to fill their shoes.  There are still some great ones out there, and some good young ones.  The problem is the amount of respect that officials are given, mostly by fans.  I mean, would you want a job where you know you are going to be yelled at, berated, booed, called every name on Earth, cursed at, have your family degraded, and even threatened?  All for about $80 a night?  It's no wonder referees are getting harder to come by.  I wouldn't do it.  It's not worth it. 

 

Most fans don't even realize that officials are doing a favor to the players, coaches, and yes, even the fans by calling games.  What if the referees association decided that it wasn't worth the trouble and just stopped working?  The games wouldn't be played. 

 

The next time you want to complain about an official and blame a game on bad calls, look at your team's stat sheet.  If rebounds, free throws, and turnovers dont tell the story, then maybe, just maybe, you have the right to complain.  Until then, thank an official for doing his or her job so that we all can enjoy high school sports.

 

By the way, I'm not an official, not related to an official, have no desire to be an official, and was NOT held at gunpoint by an official and forced to write this. thumb

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I do not think that people are talking about what you are talking about. We understand that some fans go to games just to yell at the officials. That is part of their job. It's not the blown call or two or even three. It is the obvious misjudgements that go against a whole team the whole game. Not talking about strategy, I understand that part. Or the calls that just seem so perfect in timing that it doesn't seem it could of even been planned. I have only witnessed one game this year that was horrible(I have only watched about 50+ games this year), and about three questionable games. I have heard about the Jackson game and a few others that seem pretty awful.

 

Overall the officials are not that bad, people will gripe regardless. It is the ones who ref these 3 or 4 games a season per team that makes everyone else look bad(3 or 4 games per team per season is a lot). If their was accountability for these guys they would shape up or ship out. The problem is that some of them do not realize how horrible they are. They need someone in their organization to point it out and help them improve. Instead of saying that Coach Billy Bob called and complained, so we will move you to someone else for now. Then you can have them in the district tournament or big game and pay them back.

 

TSSAA makes enough money to pay them to have serious instruction from good officials. Have off season clinics(maybe use basketball camps in the summer), evaluate more seriously, enforce consequences(not to punish but to educate and improve their skills), have a couple of filmed games and watch with trained supervisor or experienced official discuss situations. Also teach not to take crowd and coaches personally, coaches are trying to help team win, and the crowd for the majority is not going to like you win or lose. So do your best for the kids and the future of basketball.

[FlatCreekJim]

TSSAA makes enough money to pay them to have serious instruction from good officials.  Have off season clinics(maybe use basketball camps in the summer), evaluate more seriously, enforce consequences(not to punish but to educate and improve their skills), have a couple of filmed games and watch with trained supervisor or experienced official discuss situations.  Also teach not to take crowd and coaches personally, coaches are trying to help team win, and the crowd for the majority is not going to like you win or lose.  So do your best for the kids and the future of basketball.

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The different areas or associations use camps and such for training. I saw officials at one camp last year that were obviously new. Some were pretty good for beginners, others were lost...... the game is too fast for them. It has nothing to do with their age. They are simply not able to process the information fast enough. I saw a 1st round region game, the crew worked very poorly together. One official spent his time calling fouls in the other's zones. He called a blocking foul under the goal from the shooters rear. He was at side midcourt. The other two officials under the goal did not whistle a foul. One even looked at the other as his whistle dropped from his mouth. Shortly after that one called a charge on a fast break because the defensive player had setup for a charge and actually fell backward. The approaching player is a really great athlete, shot the lay up and somehow contorted his body and NEVER made contact with the defender. The official RAN up to the elbow to display his strong charge signal. As you can imagine the player, coach and crowd were dumbfounded. He had decided before the play actually happened that it was going to be a charge but didn't wait for the result. The 3 pt shooters in the game were being floored the official up top was watching the flight of the ball and the paint while the shooters were being taken out by "pulling guards"! I got a bit upset that night and even yelled at one!

[CHSpanther]

Very very very NICE post!!! It says everything almost PERFECTLY!!! I agree with it all 100%!!! (The ref that screwed JC over will be lucky to ref another game after this all goes through)

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What goes through ??????

[7Awatcher]

The problem is the amount of respect that officials are given, mostly by fans.  I mean, would you want a job where you know you are going to be yelled at, berated, booed, called every name on Earth, cursed at, have your family degraded, and even threatened?  All for about $80 a night?  It's no wonder referees are getting harder to come by.  I wouldn't do it.  It's not worth it. 

825601959[/snapback]

 

Respect of the official..........what is respect? I have always been taught that respect is EARNED, the demand for respect is kinda like a dictatorship and you know what that gets you. And the officials that I personally respect has done that they have earned it...........I may not agree with every call they make, but I respect them.