Tennessee Coach's Poll-28 November 2016

[Newestguy]

Need to replace Alcoa (even though they're just HM) with Greenville

[ObserverW]

I think you misunderstand the definition of a "poll". There isn't any homework for him to do. The coaches all vote on the rankings.

 

What is a "legacy team" and which team on the rankings above are getting an "honorary ranking"?

 

You are correct Sir, it is a poll.  But one would assume that those being polled have a base of knowledge on which to cast their vote.  It should not be a guessing exercise.  

 

By saying there is no homework proves the exact point I am making regarding legacy teams.  If a pollster does not do his homework, he will simply vote based on what he has always voted.  Thus, you get legacy teams in the poll that have no business being there.  Just like Florida, Florida State, Notre Dame, University of Tennessee in football--they always end up highly ranked in the preseason football polls because of the "supposed to be there, legacy mentality."  Never mind that any of those given teams finished the prior season with a 6-6 record, they will always be there.  

[ObserverW]

Thanks to all my rescuers???

 

All I can say is that this first poll is pretty much a bunch of silly wild arsed guesses. If we had waited a week to put it out it might have been a little less incendiary. Bradley and Baylor wrestle tonight, so that is a start. Most of the teams on the list will see each other at the Cleveland Duals, which will sort a good bit of it out. Science Hill wrestles Cleveland next Friday. 

 

I will say this about basing dual meet strength on returning placers. While it is probably not true of most of the teams on this list, it is possible to have four or five medalists and not much else. The best state tournament finish I had at Jeff County, I only took five wrestlers to state. Two champions, a fourth and a fifth later and we are in seventh place. My dual team, however, finished third in the conference and didn't even make the region duals. 

 

As to why Christian Brothers ended up where they are, I can't help you with that. I'm guessing they'll be at Cleveland next week and they'll get to make their case where it matters. Which keeps bringing me back to my theme-until people get the chance to actually see each other, it's all guesswork.

 

At the very least, Chris has some very powerful bulletin board material.

 

Well I didn't even have to say it again, you said it for me!  A "bunch of silly wild arsed guesses"  So why would you not want to put some coaches in the poll that have studied the situation enough to at least make Educated Guesses.  There are coaches out there to have studied the situation and could make a much better attempt.  

 

Good point on returning placers not necessarily equaling a great dual team and using this logic, Arlington should be way up on your dual rankings list.  They didn't have a lot of returning medalists, but they do have several kids that return that were several rounds deep.  So I wouldn't say a team of superstars but a lot of solid talent on that team.  

 

All this information is readily available to the public AND the coaches in your poll.  Lets help each other out here and expect a higher level of care when voting, maybe next time suggest your pollsters gather some pertinent information and THEN cast the vote.   Lets give the wrestlers the respect they deserve by trying a little harder next time. 

[ArtusCimber]

At this point, there is a lot of guesswork to it. In two weeks, there should be very little. The Cleveland Duals are going to reveal a good bit early on. I might add, however, that things will scramble some after people get to their true weights after Christmas.

[hoosierdad]

I know of one new elementary super star moving into the area just to join him. (Note: it came down to Ryan as first runner up and then BA)

Do you think that Nolensville out recruited Ryan and BA?  I am sure tuition is much cheaper at Nolensville than either Ryan or BA.  Not sure why it was relevant to include your note about Ryan and BA being runner-up.  What purpose did this serve?

[ObserverW]

At this point, there is a lot of guesswork to it. In two weeks, there should be very little. The Cleveland Duals are going to reveal a good bit early on. I might add, however, that things will scramble some after people get to their true weights after Christmas.

 

Which teams will be at Cleveland Duals?

[ghouse]

Well I didn't even have to say it again, you said it for me!  A "bunch of silly wild arsed guesses"  So why would you not want to put some coaches in the poll that have studied the situation enough to at least make Educated Guesses.  There are coaches out there to have studied the situation and could make a much better attempt.  

 

Good point on returning placers not necessarily equaling a great dual team and using this logic, Arlington should be way up on your dual rankings list.  They didn't have a lot of returning medalists, but they do have several kids that return that were several rounds deep.  So I wouldn't say a team of superstars but a lot of solid talent on that team.  

 

All this information is readily available to the public AND the coaches in your poll.  Lets help each other out here and expect a higher level of care when voting, maybe next time suggest your pollsters gather some pertinent information and THEN cast the vote.   Lets give the wrestlers the respect they deserve by trying a little harder next time. 

 

Keep in mind that if any of the coaches you are talking about had "done their homework" they might have noticed that Arlington (which you seem to be lobbying for) has already taken loses to Bartlett, Father Ryan, MBA, and Clarksville Northwest this season.  I would imagine that, for a poll meant to measure dual meet strength, in-season dual results should outweigh what one team did in the individual tournament last season.  Two of those teams don't even make the "others receiving votes" category... should they be in there ahead of Arlington?

 

Just trying to point out that early season rankings in particular can be a bit muddy, especially with descent plans, football playoffs, etc.

[cbg]

I am with Ghouse about earning your ranking!  Everyone that has been around Tennessee high school wrestling for any amount of time knows that in a normal season CBHS & Father Ryan wrestle a tough out of state schedule.  How many times does it have to be said that you never know what team Pat Simpson is going to put on the mat until the region tournament.  Just an educated guess that the FR team people watched on Saturday will be much different when February rolls around.

[ArtusCimber]

When I was voting, I always made sure my teams earned their ranking. Last year Science Hill wasn't on anybody's radar until the state duals, and they earned their way in with wins over two really good teams. 

 

This is all for fun. The only polls and rankings that matter are the Sunday after that weekend in February.

 

I'm glad my first poll as moderator has gotten so much attention. Thanks guys.

[ObserverW]

Keep in mind that if any of the coaches you are talking about had "done their homework" they might have noticed that Arlington (which you seem to be lobbying for) has already taken loses to Bartlett, Father Ryan, MBA, and Clarksville Northwest this season.  I would imagine that, for a poll meant to measure dual meet strength, in-season dual results should outweigh what one team did in the individual tournament last season.  Two of those teams don't even make the "others receiving votes" category... should they be in there ahead of Arlington?

 

Just trying to point out that early season rankings in particular can be a bit muddy, especially with descent plans, football playoffs, etc.

 

I'm not lobbying for Arlington, I'm only using them as an example.  Truth be told, I'd say Arlington would prefer to go unmentioned. 

 

But to your point, doing "homework" would require a little more than looking at the scoreboard and saying Team A beat Team B.  You must consider other factors, as you also stated in your last comment.  This is not about predicting who will win matches in the 1st week of the season, its predicting where teams will finish.  To many, early season dual scores are irrelevant, other than a little pride, especially with non-district, nothing is really lost.  So, are YOU suggesting that NW and Bartlett should be included in the rankings ahead of Arlington based on a week one match?

[ObserverW]

When I was voting, I always made sure my teams earned their ranking. Last year Science Hill wasn't on anybody's radar until the state duals, and they earned their way in with wins over two really good teams. 

 

This is all for fun. The only polls and rankings that matter are the Sunday after that weekend in February.

 

I'm glad my first poll as moderator has gotten so much attention. Thanks guys.

 

I appreciate the fact that you expect your teams to earn their way into the rankings but since you mentioned last year, I must also discuss. 

 

Voting on "legacy" teams is real.  Lets take last years coaches poll, following state duals they had Cleveland listed 3rd in AAA!  Yes that's right, Cleveland, a team that didn't even qualify for State Duals.  So unfortunately I must again say, your poll lacks in validity.  You can surmise all you want but Cleveland DID NOT earn that ranking! 

 

Are these the same people still being polled?  Maybe you should suggest everyone in your poll group should have similar standards as your own. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by ObserverW

[mosport]

Doubt FR lineup against Arlington was final varsity but the dual was very exciting to watch nonetheless.  MBA was probably closer but they still don't have their football players yet.   Arlington will have a tough time giving up 12 or 18 points for the foreseeable future, but anything can happen, right??... just look at Tennessee High last year.  Arlington should and will earn their ranking strictly on their dual performances this season, both in and out of state, just like every other team.