Pantherbert

This is by far one of THE BEST threads on this site. Keep it coming Very uplifting.

Attempting to downplay what goes on in those sports doesn't help legitimize cheerleading as one.

Band walks a fine line. Those who engage in the activity must be in shape but not all have what has been come to be understood in the sports community as athletic ability. The problem some people have with band and cheerleading being called sports lies with thier origin. Here you have two activities who grew along with football as a supportive effort to the team and getting the community excited. Marching bands actually have been around longer than cheerleaders due to the roots in military bands but both MB and cheer as we think of them had there beginnings supporting football in the 1880's. The sports fan sees this scenario. Here you have these two groups , knowing their backgrounds, and each decide to begin holding competitions among themselves in addidtion to supporting football. Now, many years later you have these groups seeing themselves eqaul to football and demanding equal respect as a sport an how dare anyone see differently. That just doesn't sit well with many people. Do I personally consider cheerleading a sport? Not really. Just as with band I don't mean to imply that hard work and dedication is required and thusly come across in disrespect but in my eyes any "sport" where one performs a show or routine and success or failure is determined by the opinion of a panel of judges. To me that rules out band, cheerleading, ice skating, dance, etc. You can even throw diving in there even though it isn't a performance or routine. I've read opinions of those who say that all sports have judges it's just that they are called refs or umpires and that they too can directly affect the outcome. Let me clarify. Yes, a referee or umpire can directly affect an outcome but they never should. The best officials to the job and you hardly know they are there. This is opposed to a " judged" sport where absolutly everything is riding on the various judges' interpretation of how well or poorly someone did. Let's say you place poorly in a band competition. You may feel slighted or heck, even flat out cheated but that's the way it's decided so you move on. It doesn't happen nearly as much as overzealous fans would admit but when you can tell an official clearly decided the outcome of a game of basketball, you feel robbed of the chance to win. Why? Because it's the officials job to judge who is/ who is not following the rules of the sport during gameplay, not to decide who he/she thought played better and award a victory. Finally, you're asking someone to provide you insight into T$$AA logic? Good luck with that one my friend /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> T$$AA logic = oxymoron

Being in shape and being athletic are two different things. I'm quite confident everyone in band is in shape but not all have athletic ability. In terms of if it's a sport or not I've already expressed my opinion so instead of beating a dead horse allow me to put this thread to rest..........pick whatever side you will. Band is/is not a sport

It happens. Message boards are funny things. I would only ask that this one experiance not sour you in coaches in general. I coach with freshman and personally I'm happy with that. I like being part of a program and teaching the young players what they'll need to succeed at JV and Varsity. Maybe I'm just weird /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> I demand a lot but I care a lot. I know your original post wasn't directed at me in any way. I just wanted to voice my feelings and maybe cheer you up a little that there are some young coaches ( I'm 25) who understand that we want to win but we really do care about our players. I hope your daughter has a great year with whatever she decides to do.

Honestly, that's pretty much how I'd handle it although the only reason I'd have a player(s) run extra is for A) being late for and/or missing practice without good reason or B ) lack of effort/bad attitude. This particular coach seemed to go too far based on the story as told. Why exactly were they running more than usual?

Let's be fair. That's a blanket statement.

before I turn over to ESPN Radio

I would agree but now we're talking about refs and judgement calls. You could issue what equates to a sideline warning and then bring out the penalties.

I love what bands bring to the experiance. I never known a student to dislike the band being there because it adds to the atmosphere ( and as mentioned is far better than rap) It's just the idea that a band is a bigger draw than a football team is silly. Like I say, If a school's football team is so terrible that the band parents outnumber the fans.......then I can see it being true. ( and sad to say, I've seen it once). This isn't the case with the majority of fans at the majority of schools.

But Rob....we can't accuse CBHS of recruiting, can we? As to who is the best team on that list I totally agree that Olive Branch should be #1.

Is your football team THAT bad? Is your band THAT good? I understand band parents listening to their kids but outside of a terrible football program and/or a DCI-quality band program........Half the stands are filled with people who came for the band?

NBA refs had best not bet against him

Last night the Panthers of Bartlett ended a 5 year losing skid to the Bolton Wildcats taking the 2007 BHS Bowl 10-3 It was coach Robert Armbruster's ( Bartlett Class of '72) first win as the Panther's head coach and came on the night of his 35th high school reunion. Special night all around. Congrats Panthers!!!!

To not call band a sport isn't being anti-band, friend. No, I really don't consider band a sport and that is in no way being disrespectful. It's popular on it's own and thusly the ESPN exposure. Now, I was the first to bring up ESPN picking up the rights to broadcast DCI Worlds. They also broadcast the World Series of Poker and Scripp's National Spelling Bee. Neither are sports but both are competitions and draw ratings. I'm by no means comparing Band to those two but just pointing out that this isn't the ESPN of 10-to-15 years ago. It's not a question of what is or isn't a true sport anymore. ESPN isn't stupid. They see a market. It's all about one thing. . . . . . . . . Bands are great. Football is great. Some like both. Some like neither.

All valid reasons why the Olympics stink Really, let's talk Curling. Now there is a sport of kings. Yeah, thanks for that Scotland

It's not exactly the same. Judges in a band competition decide the outcome. Officials in a football game do not ( or at least are not supposed to). I don't agree with the idea anyone's fate in the hands of a judge in any sort of competition.

As I have stated, in any competition, sport or not, the outcome should NEVER EVER be determined by anyone's opinion. It's pityful way to decide a winner. Now, I think it's important to understand that I personally have absolutley nothing against band competitions nor do I dislike or disrespect the work that goes into them. Marching Bands, as we understand them, have their genisis in halftime performances in at football games. The first modern halftimw show performed by any marching band was by the University of Illinois marching band in 1907 in a game against the University of Chicago. The practice was, of course, later adopted in secondary schools. In 1972 Drum Corp International was founded which was the beginning of this idea of bands competing amongst themselves. It's largly thanks to DCI that band competitions enjoy the popularity that they do among it's target audience. This has reached such a degree that even ESPN2 has picked up the rights to air the DCI championships ( which have already been held....it will be a delayed broadcast). These guys aren't stupid. They recognize a money making market( DCI's market being performing arts students and their famlies) Why else would they air a poker game for crying out loud. It's all about the money and DCI is expanding and making money. This all said, there is just something to me that's fundamentally wrong about calling a band competition a sport in the same realm as what most consider a sport. It just doesn't seem to fit. Even with ESPN picking up DCI ( which is pretty much the professional level ) I just simply cannot call something that began as halftime entertainment for a sport. Now, what IS becoming is very popular and that's all that really matters. I have respect for what ya;ll do. My sister was in the color guard for 3 years at Bartlett and has marched with the DCI corp , The Colts, for the past 2 years. I know what they go through and how hard they work. I'm not just some uninformed hack who doesn't care for bands. I do and football, and basketball for that matter, wouldn't be the same without them.( Germantown's band played the theme from " Back to the Future" at our game against them tonight.....that was fantastic) All things considered, it's reaching a point of popularity to where perception may become reality as it were but even so, I just simply cannot place it in the realm of sports. I'm not trying to make anybody angry here.....I just can't. In the end, it's just my opinion. We all have one and people will enjoy what they enjoy. That's why I say even though many don't consider it a sport doesn't change it's popularity. It doesn't have to be one to be popular and beloved by those who choose to.

Here's my take on this. I tend to agree with that post but competative cheerleading is generally more than the usual " Ra-Ra-Go Team ! " stuff you get on friday nights; even more so when talkin about Pom squads. Shoot, my sister marches ( color guard ) with a DCI group the past two years and I can tell you for a fact that those guard girls ( the good ones ) are all in awesome shape. Even, then it still seems to fall under "performance art" than sport. The thing I hate most about stuff like cheerleading is not so much what it is but how it is scored. This goes for Olympic sports like diving, gymnastics ( which is where I would place cheer and guard ), ice skating, etc. The final score rest with judges. Victory and defeat relies on somebody's opinion of how you performed rather than the just the performance itself. With basketball, football, weighlifting, wrestling,swimming etc there is no bias ( ref issues aside) becuase you can't argue with timed score or a score that is determined by those competing against each other. Now, to be fair cheer and guard as stated takes athletic ability and skill. To me ( and I'm about to tick off the majority of my fellow southern brethren ) that makes them more sport to me than NASCAR. Yeah, there is a finsh line and it takes skill to win the race, control the car at 230mph, draft, not when to pit or not....whatever. The major player in the activity is the car....not the person. Therefore, cheer and guard have more claim to "sport" than Ricky Bobby. Ok, novel over

Nobody is knocking it. It doesn't have to be a sport to be valid.

Boy Kev-o, you sure know how to make friends Ok, here is my two cents worth. Bands and color guards take a lot of hard work and it takes skill. However, in the case if bands, that skill isn't of an athletic nature. I said," athletic" and not " endurance". Band is a competition but not an athletic competition which most I believe the basis of sports . Band takes a great deal musical ability, coordination, and endurance which I repect but that just doesn't make it a sport. Now, what I think is important is people need to stop gettin bent out of shape because band isn't seen as a sport. So what? As some have noted, it generates a great deal of interest. DCI brings in people from all over the world to compete and lots of poeple enjoy it. Band not being a sport in most eyes isn't a slap in the face. It doesn't make it unimportant. Chill out

" Cowboys, Cowboys......win,win,WIN !!!" "Giants, Giants..........Help us God "

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2960667 I've got to be honest. This is the most active I have ever seen the Grizzlies in the off-season. GM Chris Wallace is making the great 1st impression around town to be sure. The Grizz wanted Oden/Durant like everybody else but so far............ --filled the need at PG by drafting Conley -- filled the need at C through FA by siging Milicic (who should work at the 5 in the Iavaroni system) -- Casey Jacobsen and Ander Brown signed who should be decent enough off the bench ( hey, Brown couldn't be any worse than Stromile Swift) -- Now add a baller in Navarro who happens to be Gasol's best friend There are a lot of questions with this team. How well/fast will Conley adapt to the NBA game playing the 1. Will Milicic finally blossom into the player the poeple thought he could be being drafted #2 in the 2003 draft or will go the way of Stromile Swift ( picked 2nd in the 2000 draft)? Granted Milicic is being paid a great deal more than Swift has ever or will ever make. If the Grizz were in the East I think you're possibly talking about a play-off team right now. In the West, however, I'm still not convinced. We'll wait and see how these guys develope but it has most definatly been a pleasant off-season.

True but the NHL has been a trainwreck in terms of how it's been marketed since the strike. I'd love to see the Preds stay in NashVegas just to keep a major sports team in Tennessee. I don't care for hockey but to be fair I've never been to a game. It's like golf. I can't stand to watch it on TV but going to an actual PGA event is great. I could see myself getting into a hockey game if I'm there. Fromthetop 2 is right in that everything comes down to money but I do think that fact the people don't identify with hockey has at least something to do with it. Not the the major factor mind you but not a non-factor either