Is the new multiplier rule working

[Antwan]

Yes, you did say good things about MBA, and I appreciate it.

 

I obviously take a side in this debate - we all do. However, in any debate, I think it's important that fair information is out there for everyone to dissect. Maybe I was wrong in implying that there was deceit, and for that, I apologize. However, I still hold firm to my experiences with MBA commercials (TV and radio), and none I have ever seen or heard approximate even 50% athletic focus. Even MBA's website gives very little focus on football, which I am a little disappointed in given MBA's long history in football (playing since 1899, second in all-time wins in TN, etc.)

 

Getting back to task, as far as ads go, I made a post earlier (maybe on the Advertisements thread) that public schools have guaranteed students; privates do not. Private advertising is necessary; public advertising is not nearly as necessary, even if finances permit it.

 

I'd guess that you'll (we'll) see an ad again, and probably will not have to wait until next football season. Marketing a private school is a full-time endeavor.

 

I saw the MBA ads...and have them saved. The commercial you mentioned is the one I saw. It talks off how many national merit scholars MBA has produced. It also speaks of "recent" state title athletic teams also. I would say it is balanced in several areas of recruitment. I can get more detail if you want.

[TalentWinsGames]

I saw the MBA ads...and have them saved. The commercial you mentioned is the one I saw. It talks off how many national merit scholars MBA has produced. It also speaks of "recent" state title athletic teams also. I would say it is balanced in several areas of recruitment. I can get more detail if you want.

You stated that you had not seen the ad. So now, you're flip flopping. Gotch, I'm sure you have it saved. And yes, please get more detailed because I want.

[rollredroll]

I saw the MBA ads...and have them saved. The commercial you mentioned is the one I saw. It talks off how many national merit scholars MBA has produced. It also speaks of "recent" state title athletic teams also. I would say it is balanced in several areas of recruitment. I can get more detail if you want.

 

I've only seen one ad - the one you apparently saw - so I don't need details on that one ad. Having seen it, I'm sure you can tell Talent... that it's probably not even 50% athletically-oriented.

[Antwan]

You stated that you had not seen the ad. So now, you're flip flopping. Gotch, I'm sure you have it saved. And yes, please get more detailed because I want.

 

I stated that I did not see the West or East Tennessee ads for private or public schools. I did see Middle Tennessee. No flip or flop.

I don't have time to post the transcript...but I will do that later.

Edited December 12, 2005 by Antwan

[my2cents]

You venture. You venture. Well, I am not a venturing type person. I am a see it to believe type person. I saw it. I'm sorry though, you must be right because you went to MBA. Did you not read the submission above that. I stated that MBA did hold true to their academics, unlike other private schools. However, there is some pressure on the schools in Nashville to compete with one another for players. I think you will see that over the next few years, private schools in Nashville will see a decline in athletic talent. There are just so many and so few truly talented players out there. But, yes there was a commercial. You still did not answer my question. Can public schools afford adds in papers and commercials?

I think usually people advertise something when you are trying to attract someone into buying what you are selling. Last time I checked MBA cost money to attend, Public schools are free. Why would you run an add when everyone already knows you can go get it for free? Any of the counties you go to in Tennessee you can get it for free, another state still free. Not only can you get a free education, you can also sign up for the free lunch program too. What a great system move to the area you want and everything is FREE!! FREE!!

[big red big blue]

Come on here. You are acting as if that is the only way they are able to get top talent in guys. I never said that is the only way they are able to lure kids into their program. Stop acting childish and taking things out of context. I said one way they have an advantage is advertising their product. You guys are funny . See I can do to that too. So, you are telling me that part of what I said is not true. No one seems to think that being able to afford newspaper/ tv adds even plays a small part.

The question that was posed to me was, would TN football be better off having only one division and five classifications based on population? I said yes, if they allowed everyone to recruit. I just gave one unfair advantage is financially, private schools are way ahead of the majority of public schools. Everyone seemed to think that I was blaming the media and I manufactured this dream world. I did not. Simply stating what I have seen. So, The University of Vanderbilt will not benefit from being on tv more this year? The answer is yes they will. Therefore, pub is pub. If you can show your product, then more will become interested.

You can recruit btw, eighth graders. This allows you to bring the kids in and teach them your system a year before high school. All a coach has to do is go watch local Jr. high games to see the talent floating around. Guys not that difficult. I'm not creating a conspiracy theory here, it's not a stretch. But believe what you want. Go ahead and come up with your one liners. Bottomline, I answered the question and everyone wants to focus on nonessential details. I mean, the Times-Freepress wrote an article over exactly what I have mentioned. Can't be that far of a stretch.

 

I'd say there are many sides to this coin. First, I'd say the hurdles for getting a kid into a public school to which he isn't zoned are much lower than those for getting into a private school. If a family is really motivated for their kid to get the best football experience possible, and they determine that the two options for doing so are either sending their kid to MBA or Riverdale, what must they do in either case? For MBA, it's apply to the school, take the admissions test, interview with the school, have your financial aid package adjudicated, determine if you can in fact afford to pay your remaining portion, figure out a way to get the kid to and from school (no bussing), etc. In the case of Riverdale, it's buy a house in the part of murfreesboro zoned for Riverdale. At that point, by law you have to attend Riverdale HS, and the government has to make sure you are going.

 

But, more to answer your question, I think the answer is yes, all public schools should be able to advertise. In some regards, they do. If I go to buy a house somewhere, at the top of the fact sheet is a list of the public schools you will be zoned to, complete with all the relevant facts (student-teacher ratio, etc.) Never have I seen things like "Proximate Private Schools--tuition, selectivity, etc."

 

Probably some areas, like Williamson County, don't need to adevertise, as plenty of people are moving there and they aren't having trouble filling their schools. But if a place like metro Nashville ever gets their stuff together, and has some great performing schools, then it would make sense for them to advertise. They are the ones who have suffered more than anyone from people sending their kids to private schools....like I said, went to grad school with a guy who took a job with Dell in Nashville...he was shocked when people told him to negotiate as part of his relocation package private school tuition for his kids (who are toddlers). So if these schools are ever in a position to counter this reputation they have with facts (college placement, SAT scores, etc.) they should be able to do it.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Come on here. You are acting as if that is the only way they are able to get top talent in guys. I never said that is the only way they are able to lure kids into their program. Stop acting childish and taking things out of context. I said one way they have an advantage is advertising their product. You guys are funny . See I can do to that too. So, you are telling me that part of what I said is not true. No one seems to think that being able to afford newspaper/ tv adds even plays a small part.

The question that was posed to me was, would TN football be better off having only one division and five classifications based on population? I said yes, if they allowed everyone to recruit. I just gave one unfair advantage is financially, private schools are way ahead of the majority of public schools. Everyone seemed to think that I was blaming the media and I manufactured this dream world. I did not. Simply stating what I have seen. So, The University of Vanderbilt will not benefit from being on tv more this year? The answer is yes they will. Therefore, pub is pub. If you can show your product, then more will become interested.

You can recruit btw, eighth graders. This allows you to bring the kids in and teach them your system a year before high school. All a coach has to do is go watch local Jr. high games to see the talent floating around. Guys not that difficult. I'm not creating a conspiracy theory here, it's not a stretch. But believe what you want. Go ahead and come up with your one liners. Bottomline, I answered the question and everyone wants to focus on nonessential details. I mean, the Times-Freepress wrote an article over exactly what I have mentioned. Can't be that far of a stretch.

 

TWG..you never answered my question. So I`m not sure what question you are referring to.

 

As to your post....In the REAL world most privates school kids start at their school when they are in elementary and before. So that just does not constitute recruiting athletes. And in reality TWG anyone who is choosing a school for athletic reasons doesn`t need advertising to know that a school has a good sports program. All one has to do is read the local sports section to know that.

 

I`ll pause so you can answer my question.

[tnsddeveloper]

As to your post....In the REAL world most privates school kids start at their school when they are in elementary and before. So that just does not constitute recruiting athletes.

 

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this ... as it looks like you are a JCM supporter and not necessarily a private supporter (although I may be mistaken). I attended a private as have my siblings and most of all my cousins. From my experience and theirs, I can tell you that very few kids that graduate at a private actually attended elementary school there. For exampe, in my graduating class their were four (that's right 4). They made up less than 7% of the entire graduating class. They made a big deal of it when we graduated as they do every year for some goofy reason. From speaking to a relative of mine that coaches a sport at a very successful private this past weekend ... not a single one of his players this year attended elementary school at that private. Most transferred in after the 8th grade.

 

I'm not really trying to make a point or strengthen or weaken anyone's point. I'm just trying to keep any misinformation about the privates from going on.

[Old Timer]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this ... as it looks like you are a JCM supporter and not necessarily a private supporter (although I may be mistaken). I attended a private as have my siblings and most of all my cousins. From my experience and theirs, I can tell you that very few kids that graduate at a private actually attended elementary school there. For exampe, in my graduating class their were four (that's right 4). They made up less than 7% of the entire graduating class. They made a big deal of it when we graduated as they do every year for some goofy reason. From speaking to a relative of mine that coaches a sport at a very successful private this past weekend ... not a single one of his players this year attended elementary school at that private. Most transferred in after the 8th grade.

 

I'm not really trying to make a point or strengthen or weaken anyone's point. I'm just trying to keep any misinformation about the privates from going on.

 

Actually, VG went to a private school his entire life and now sends his two kids to JCM ( a public HS that was hit hard a few years back by transfers of students and athletes to two new Magnet High Schools that opened in the area). He has seen both sides of the argument.

[rollredroll]

I attended a private as have my siblings and most of all my cousins. From my experience and theirs, I can tell you that very few kids that graduate at a private actually attended elementary school there. For exampe, in my graduating class their were four (that's right 4). They made up less than 7% of the entire graduating class.

 

Slightly off topic, but if those numbers are correct, I wonder how said school stays in business. If four of you represented less than 7% of the class, that implies a class of at least 58 students, which means at least 54 people who started in elementary school at said school left at some point (assuming equal class sizes among all grades). If I were a parent forking out money out of my own pocket for a private school, a 93% attrition rate would have me running for the hills in a heartbeat.

 

Now, if a large majority of this 93% is going to other private schools down the line, that has me less concerned, but I would venture to say a 93% attrition rate is not a statistic that said school is promoting.

 

How would the public schools in your private school’s “zone” be assessed?

[tnsddeveloper]

Slightly off topic, but if those numbers are correct, I wonder how said school stays in business. If four of you represented less than 7% of the class, that implies a class of at least 58 students, which means at least 54 people who started in elementary school at said school left at some point (assuming equal class sizes among all grades). If I were a parent forking out money out of my own pocket for a private school, a 93% attrition rate would have me running for the hills in a heartbeat.

 

Now, if a large majority of this 93% is going to other private schools down the line, that has me less concerned, but I would venture to say a 93% attrition rate is not a statistic that said school is promoting.

 

How would the public schools in your private school’s “zone” be assessed?

 

You're right. The private I attended definitely did not advertise that. But the figures are also skewed when you consider a few things. I'm in my mid 30's - when most privates near Nashville started. Meaning, most class sizes were extremely small (I belive my kindergarten class there would have had 8 students in it) as the schools started. The publics near my school were not bad schools. Of course they had their public school headaches, but they are considered to be decent schools.

 

Off the top of my head ... going position by position on my high school baseball team senior year - not a single starter on the team attended that school for elementary school (at any level). Not one. My junior year - 3 attended elementary school there.

 

There is a lot of turnover at private schools. More than you would like to think. It happens for various reasons. Parents can no longer afford it. Don't agree with some of the doctrine. Feel like there are greener pastures elsewhere. Whatever reason ... it happens way more than you think. And, as you stated before ... it definitely isn't advertised publically.

 

Not to mention we are talking about 13 or so years worth of school. That's a lot of time for parents to move, get new jobs, and/or for just life to happen. It's not like MBA or BA where you don't start there until junior high. Now looking at it from the standpoint of kids that started in junior high at my private ... then we are talking about the vast majority actually completing their education there.

Edited December 14, 2005 by tnsddeveloper

[BUC4LIFE]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this ... as it looks like you are a JCM supporter and not necessarily a private supporter (although I may be mistaken). I attended a private as have my siblings and most of all my cousins. From my experience and theirs, I can tell you that very few kids that graduate at a private actually attended elementary school there. For exampe, in my graduating class their were four (that's right 4). They made up less than 7% of the entire graduating class. They made a big deal of it when we graduated as they do every year for some goofy reason. From speaking to a relative of mine that coaches a sport at a very successful private this past weekend ... not a single one of his players this year attended elementary school at that private. Most transferred in after the 8th grade.

 

I'm not really trying to make a point or strengthen or weaken anyone's point. I'm just trying to keep any misinformation about the privates from going on.

 

I'm sure that is the case for some. It is not the case for everyone. Boyd has well over 50% of each graduating class that has gone all the way through, starting in K or pre K. Some years the classes are 65-70%. We might be an exception, I don't know about everyone else.