An "outsiders" take on Siegel's underachievement

[SIEGELdance]

You're saying stuff that has been said on here for 3 years. Maybe some will listen but most will not. It is now, however, a moot point, as the season is over.

 

One point I disagree with you on is the ability of Jimmy Oden. I think he is a rare talent and capable of single handedly carrying his team to victory, which I don't think Ramsey, as great as he is, can do. I agree that his shot is ugly and inconsistent but irregardless, he can score. And that is the bottom line. I don't think he is a team player and I agree that Siegel was unstoppable in the district tournament, when Oden was suspended. I also felt they looked better against Whites Creek with Oden on the bench. It seems that the team just plays harder when he is out of the game.

 

But again, this is all a moot point. It remains to be seen if Oden can succeed at the college level. I wish him, and all the seniors from around the district, well.

 

you're right, keith ramsey cant single handedly carry his team to victory ... that would mean that he cant act as a team player. there is a very thin line between taking control of a game and completely taking it over ... jimmy crossed that line on thursday night. it was a big mistake on his part for trying to play hero in one of the biggest games of his career. im not bashing him though, i think he is an amazing player.

 

great post though mcnine .. i agree 100%. too bad you didnt do your write up earlier and they didnt read it

[icecold06]

Check this out. In two years Siegel should have Caleb Harper, Tyler Cutter, Kerry Hammond(best 8th grader in Rutherford county) Marc Gooch(2nd best 8th grader in Rutherford county) Chucky McCord, and Hockenberry they will just reload it is amazing what they have coming up in the future I think 2 years from now Siegel, Oakland, and Blackman will have some epic battles in that district

[im_tj_m]

2 years Siegel will be back on top,

Tyler Cutter as the senior leader

Hockenberry, Harper, Montori Hughes, McNicholas, McCord, Ward, Neil Robinson potentially, Kerry Hammonds, Matthew Smith, Gooch, Deonte Cruse. That is a LOADED team that will never have to worry about depth.

These are also some of the most coachable kids around who don't try to run the show and understand its Coach Harris that they answer to. Remember people thought Oakland wouldn't touch Siegel after losing what they did...Don't be surprised if late in the season Siegel starts to challenge some of the top tier teams even next year.

Edited March 20, 2006 by im_tj_m

[Flame123]

Talent will not be a problem. However, Kerry Hammonds may have been the best 8th grader this past year but remember there is a thing called "Peaking to early". In my opinion this is the case. He will dominate high school the way he did in middle school. I really don't consider his season dominating. Statistically he took around 30-42 shot attempts per game. I would hope that he could score 24-30 points a game! However, when you put all these kids on the court together they should mix in real well with one another.

If Chris does not get control of the politics involved in how his team functions then there will be a repeat of the last two years. I see another potential problem with another parent causing distraction and possibly creating distance between players. Ice Cold, you know what I am talking about. If Chris does not get that under control from the very beginning then we will see major distractions in the future that could really hurt this team.

Chris is about as good as a man as you will meet. He understands what has to be done. He is either going to do it or let the politics take over. I don't expect anyone to understand what is meant by "politics", ecspecially any Siegel players, but Chris knows excatly what I am talking about.

I know Chris and he is a very humble young man but he knows the mistakes that he has made and realizes he will have another shot at State in the next few years. However, it is going to be a much tougher road with the talent pool in the other schools. No disrespect as I have witnessed most of these kids growing up!

Edited March 20, 2006 by Flame123

[MidTennFootball]

2 years Siegel will be back on top,

Tyler Cutter as the senior leader

Hockenberry, Harper, Montori Hughes, McNicholas, McCord, Ward, Neil Robinson potentially, Kerry Hammonds, Matthew Smith, Gooch, Deonte Cruse. That is a LOADED team that will never have to worry about depth.

These are also some of the most coachable kids around who don't try to run the show and understand its Coach Harris that they answer to. Remember people thought Oakland wouldn't touch Siegel after losing what they did...Don't be surprised if late in the season Siegel starts to challenge some of the top tier teams even next year.

 

Nice logic except for one omission: Oakland has constantly overachieved, while it can be argued that Siegel was never able to reach their potential with 4 division 1 prospects, and Siegel can forget about ever having that much talent on a team, because thats a once-in-a-lifetime kind of deal. Siegel will have a good base to build around for the future, but its almost impossible to predict the future because as you know, so many things can happen either by way of transfer, quitting, getting kicked off, etc etc etc. Siegel potentially could have a great team, but the same could be said for Oakland and Blackman as well, along with who knows who else in this district

[statebound44]

wow great post mcnine. i don't agree with people saying you would get a lot of backlash.. but that's just me. i completely agree with you, wish these boys and coaches could have seen this early on. however, i still support my stars 100% and am extremely proud of them for a great season.

[Guest dare_2_dream]

Nice logic except for one omission: Oakland has constantly overachieved, while it can be argued that Siegel was never able to reach their potential with 4 division 1 prospects, and Siegel can forget about ever having that much talent on a team, because thats a once-in-a-lifetime kind of deal. Siegel will have a good base to build around for the future, but its almost impossible to predict the future because as you know, so many things can happen either by way of transfer, quitting, getting kicked off, etc etc etc. Siegel potentially could have a great team, but the same could be said for Oakland and Blackman as well, along with who knows who else in this district

 

Well if things fall in place and no one moves or transfers or gets hurt, Siegel has a chance to have another team full of talent. but like you said, who knows what will happen over the next couple of years.

[PHargis]

First,

 

I want to congratulate the Siegel Stars for an amazing two year run in men's basketball. No matter what anyone on this board says, you guys have achieved a lot, and hopefully learned valuable lessons that will propel these young men in the bigger game of life.

 

However, there are some issues from an outsider's perspective that troubled me all year about this team and those issues came home to roost at a horrible time for the Nation. Let me give you some background on myself. I'm a 24 year old black guy from Nashville that played football and basketball in the late 1990's. So, I'm not one of these good ole boys on here that don't like the earrings and rap music and look for anything to pick on America's youth about. Let me tell you, I know talent, underachievement, and discipline problems when I see them. Some of my teams at Antioch back in the day were the poster children for that when I was in high school, until I graduated in 1999. I have recently moved to Murfreesboro and have picked up a liking for the talent of the Siegel Stars basketball team. I've watched 10-12 games this year and the sky was the limit for this team. They had all the components of a championship high school team. Size, speed, shooters...but they were missing two key things that every championship team has........leadership and discipline.

 

I have gotten the chance to meet Chris Harris several times, and I must say that he is a quality human being. I think he will continue to be successful, but I hope he learns from the mistakes he made with this team. In his defense, sometimes, the most talented teams are the hardest ones to coach, and this team was no exception. But, as a old coach told me, the wind blows hardest at the top of the flagpole, and he is the figurehead of this program. So he will get the majority of the blame. Some of the things that he lets go on in this program are just unbelievable. Here are several points on why this team fell short this year:

 

1. The multiple technicals and repeated mistakes that SEVERAL of Harris' guys make are almost unbearable to watch. Lucas Jones and Jimmy Oden, in particular, have made killer emotional mistakes over the past two years that have really kept this team from reaching their goals. Now, those two guys are good players and they aren't bad kids at all, but there needed to be a cracking of the whip, at home, and in practice. I mean, my dad would have raced muy coach to jerk my butt up after the first unnecessary technical, so these parents need to be blamed to an extent also. Every day, it becomes clearer why these guys did not stay at Oakland to play for Randy King. Randy runs a much tighter ship, but that is why his less talented Patriot teams give Siegel problems every time they play. I don't know if those guys are mentally tough enough at this point to play for a guy like King, but if they would have stayed and conformed or if Harris would have shown some much needed tough love at Siegel, they probably would have won even more. If you don't think it can be done, look at Whites Creek. The majority of those kids come from a 20 times worse environment than anybody at Siegel has even driven by, yet Jim Nollner commands a respect and he disciplines EVERYBODY on that squad. Dominique Rouse is a talent, but when he was playing lax early, Nollner took his rear end out and gave him the business on how things needed to be done. Rouse went back in and played hard the rest of the game. Its amazing how an old white guy can command the utmost respect of 12 inner city black kids when the expectations of the program are spelled out from the jump. Those kids would try to run through a wall for that guy because there is a built in respect there and they know the parameters and that there are consequences for each and every action. There is no gray area in that program. It's Jim's way or the highway and I respect him for that. He does it the right way with limited resources. I guarantee you that those Siegel kids wouldn't run through him...........NOT EVER!!!

 

2. When you have a dominant talent like Keith Ramsey, wouldn't it be nice if you threw him the ball just about every trip down?? Jimmy Oden is a pretty good ballplayer, but Whites Creek has some tough, quick on-ball defenders and they learned what I can't believe just got exposed about Oden's game..............HE CAN'T SHOOT. That Tim Wakefield knuckler he shoots will go in about 25% of the time from 3. They just played up and and when he penetrated Jordan and Rouse were waiting on him so they could beat it out of bounds. Gosh, I hate to rip a kid, but Jimmy Oden, in my opinion, is one of those chemistry killers, a la a Stephon Marbury that is he** when he's well, but can't when he ain't. He's bound and determined to score on a team that he really didn't have to. It was apparent really early in that game that he was going to have a rough night. He was more hesitant and unsure then I have ever seen him and he generally looked not ready to play. That is when you need to make a conscious effort to get Keith the ball EVERYTIME. Shoot, Tyler is the only guy that understood this concept all year, for some reason. If I was the coach, I would have put Rod and Caleb in with Tyler, Darius, and Keith and run it like the district tournament, when, what do you know, they played their best ball.

 

3. This team had no true vocal leader on the floor. I really think Tyler wants to be that guy, but when you have four seniors and a sophomore, one of those upperclassmen shold have been that dude. This is the Brandon Ross effect. Brandon wasn't the most talented guy in the world, but he was a vocal leader who would also lead by making a key steal, dive on the floor for a loose ball, or just vocally rally the troops. Ross' graduation was a huge loss for this program. He meant way more to that team than statistics.

 

This isn't a total rip on the Stars' basketball program, this is just an observation from an outsider. I wish Jimmy, Keith, Luke, Darius, and Rod all the best, but I hope they learn a life lesson at this time of disappointment. I'd love to hear takes on my opinions from people more in the know than I am about Siegel basketball. Have at it!!

This was more than a good post, it explained what you saw. it's much better that the one I posted that for some reason was deleted but said essentially the same thing. My other points were, the season is over and the accomplishments or non accomplishments are on record. The upcoming team has evidently seen what has happened and no matter the talent, will try to fill in where this one left unfilled. This was a group of great players. They will be remembered for a long time.

[Guest dare_2_dream]

This was more than a good post, it explained what you saw. it's much better that the one I posted that for some reason was deleted but said essentially the same thing. My other points were, the season is over and the accomplishments or non accomplishments are on record. The upcoming team has evidently seen what has happened and no matter the talent, will try to fill in where this one left unfilled. This was a group of great players. They will be remembered for a long time.

 

they will be remembered until another great team comes through and does more than this team did. which who knows when that will be, they have a chance to do more amazing things at siegel over the next few years, but who knows if they will do them. i wish them the best of luck in the future though.

[McNine4MVP]

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I apologize if it sounds like I was coming down too hard on Coach Harris, Jimmy, and Lucas. Those kids are talented athletes and have accomplished a lot and Coach Harris has done a lot of good at a very young age for a coach. I got a chance to meet JO at SportsCom last summer and he's a solid kid, but he's just that, a kid, and he lets his emotions get the best of him, much like I did at 18. I wish both of those kids the best and hope they go on to have solid collegiate careers and get their degrees. I just hate it that Siegel did not seize the opportunity that presented itself last weekend. I have no doubt that they could have beaten Hamilton.

[Guest dare_2_dream]

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I apologize if it sounds like I was coming down too hard on Coach Harris, Jimmy, and Lucas. Those kids are talented athletes and have accomplished a lot and Coach Harris has done a lot of good at a very young age for a coach. I got a chance to meet JO at SportsCom last summer and he's a solid kid, but he's just that, a kid, and he lets his emotions get the best of him, much like I did at 18. I wish both of those kids the best and hope they go on to have solid collegiate careers and get their degrees. I just hate it that Siegel did not seize the opportunity that presented itself last weekend. I have no doubt that they could have beaten Hamilton.

 

They realized the opportunity they had last year and this year, I just think they went about approaching it in the wrong way. I wish they could have lived up to everyone's expectations. I also want to wish all of them the best of luck in the future, and hope they become successful people in life. And if they play ball in college, hope they represent Siegel well and I am sure they will.

[Guest Cutters Crazies]

I think the kids coming up are also more coachable from what I saw at freshman games and what I have seen from Cutter. We all know that Hammonds success is also speculation based on what he has done thus far and potential that we see. Thankfully he wont have to do all the work himself like this year and he can develope his game further and more specifically than doing everything possible.