yes or no only

[#12fan]

Why do you think they should?

 

I don't know that they should or not, that's why I'm asking. duhhhh.

[VolunteerGeneral]

I don't know that they should or not, that's why I'm asking. duhhhh.

 

Oh I see. When you said...

What I don't understand about the whole issue is why TSSAA absolutely refuses to put the private schools in their own division.

I thought you were inferring that there was some sort of reson why they should.

 

I don`t think they should. In fact I`m wondering why they don`t just do away with Div.II and bring everyone back together.

[#12fan]

Oh I see. When you said...

 

I thought you were inferring that there was some sort of reson why they should.

 

I don`t think they should. In fact I`m wondering why they don`t just do away with Div.II and bring everyone back together.

 

I'll ask again. Not wether they should or shouldn't. That's an old question.

WHY WON'T THEY?

One of the advantages I see in doing it would be that it eliminates this arguement once & for all.

[VolunteerGeneral]

I'll ask again. Not wether they should or shouldn't. That's an old question.

WHY WON'T THEY?

One of the advantages I see in doing it would be that it eliminates this arguement once & for all.

 

Basically they already have done it with Div.I and Div. II. But they agreed that privates who didn`t play anyone who had some sort of financial aid could stay in Div.I.

 

Maybe they think like I do that folks who are still complaining should get over it. I mean they almost doubled the size of private schools with a 1.8 multiplier and they are still complaining. The 1.8 I think is about the largest multiplier used in the country.

[tcalionsfan]

I SAY THE MULTIPLIER IS UNFAIR. IT WAS PUT INTO PLACE BECAUSE OF THE RECRUTING SOME PRIVATE SCHOOLS DO, BUT NOT ALL. SMALL PRIVATES ARE BEING PUNISHED FOR THIS. BESIDES RECRUITING IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAS GONE ON FOR YEARS. COUNTIES WITH MORE THAN ONE PUBLIC SCHOOL HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER AND THEY HAVE WON STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS AND NOTHING HAS BEEN SAID. I ATTENDED PUBLIC SCHOOL AND IT WENT ON THERE IN MY SCHOOL. NOW PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE THEIR OWN LEGALLY RECURTING SCHOOLS WITH NO MUTLIPLIER. THEY ARE CALLED MAGNET SCHOOLS.

 

Please do not post in all caps. Thanks.

VG

Edited May 29, 2006 by VolunteerGeneral

[#12fan]

I've just finished reading all 13 pages of one of the other threads about all of this. Mostly, the other thread was about football I think but basically, I think I've learned that both sides of the public/private debate agree that recruiting goes on at both public & private schools (which I agree on), that the multiplier hasn't worked very well (which I agree on), and that most everyone agrees that privates do have at least some advantages because of more money & not necessarily the recruiting. It seems that the TSSAA is afraid of losing big money if the privates pull out and that there are also a few legal issues involved because the TSSAA is state sponsored. I've tried my best to keep an open mind and learn as much as I could about all of this & what it boils down to to me is that something has to change. It seems that both sides want the same thing which is equity, we're just not sure how to arrive at that. The merit system is a good starting place although I suspect it will have faults when everyone tries to decide how to work with it. Some coaches will take advantage & try to manipulate it by losing games or scheduling games that they know they probably won't win so they won't have to move up into a different classification. The only other solution is what one person referred to as the "nuclear option" of a complete split. The smaller privates seem to be against that I suspect knowing that they probably couldn't compete with bigger privates. What ever happens, I've learned a lot more about this & I'm greatful that all of you have taken the time to post here. I hope we can all agree on how to fix this mess one of these days.

[tcalionsfan]

Why does everyone think the private schools have a lot of money. They get no state funding. Everything at our school comes from dedicated parents who give when ever they can. We have one gym to serve both the high school and middle school pratices, and it's a small gym. Our football and soccer teams had played on the same fields which includes girls soccer up until this past season. Because of a lot of hard work and a lot of pledges from parents, faculty, alumni, and family we have secured loans to build a new middle and high school. mostly from middle class parents. So quit using the excuse that privates schools have money.

[VolunteerGeneral]

I've just finished reading all 13 pages of one of the other threads about all of this. Mostly, the other thread was about football I think but basically, I think I've learned that both sides of the public/private debate agree that recruiting goes on at both public & private schools (which I agree on), that the multiplier hasn't worked very well (which I agree on), and that most everyone agrees that privates do have at least some advantages because of more money & not necessarily the recruiting. It seems that the TSSAA is afraid of losing big money if the privates pull out and that there are also a few legal issues involved because the TSSAA is state sponsored. I've tried my best to keep an open mind and learn as much as I could about all of this & what it boils down to to me is that something has to change. It seems that both sides want the same thing which is equity, we're just not sure how to arrive at that. The merit system is a good starting place although I suspect it will have faults when everyone tries to decide how to work with it. Some coaches will take advantage & try to manipulate it by losing games or scheduling games that they know they probably won't win so they won't have to move up into a different classification. The only other solution is what one person referred to as the "nuclear option" of a complete split. The smaller privates seem to be against that I suspect knowing that they probably couldn't compete with bigger privates. What ever happens, I've learned a lot more about this & I'm greatful that all of you have taken the time to post here. I hope we can all agree on how to fix this mess one of these days.

 

I don`t necessarily agree about a coach trying to lose a game. In a merit system the ultimate goal would be to produce a program that competes in the top level. That`s what would identify a good coach...one that would be able to take programs and move them up to a higher level. If a coach is worth his salt, he`ll do everything he can to reach that highest level.

 

I don`t really buy the money thing either. Any disparity in finances appears at all levels. There are public schools in more affluential urban areas that compete against public schools in inner city areas with a very low economic situation. Someone from Germantown posted here once that theor baseball budget was near 100,000 dollars. At the time JCM was competing at that same level. We had worked very hard to raise money and I thought had done a very good job and we were around 20,000 dollars.So IMO fussing about money is just a waste of time. There will always be programs that will have better sources to raise it than others. Folks need to realize this and stop trying to use it as an excuse.

[#12fan]

Why does everyone think the private schools have a lot of money. They get no state funding. Everything at our school comes from dedicated parents who give when ever they can. We have one gym to serve both the high school and middle school pratices, and it's a small gym. Our football and soccer teams had played on the same fields which includes girls soccer up until this past season. Because of a lot of hard work and a lot of pledges from parents, faculty, alumni, and family we have secured loans to build a new middle and high school. mostly from middle class parents. So quit using the excuse that privates schools have money.

 

tcalionsfan: I noticed on one of the earlier posts that you asked the question "what are the public schools afraid of." (with respect to playing against privates) You & volunteer general are obviously very adament about keeping things the way they are and that's fine - I'm just looking for a solution here. But I'm just curious & so I'll turn your quote around. What are the privates afraid of? If you guys had your own division, what would be the problem with that? - Again, I'm just curious about how we solve this problem instead of arguing back & forth about who has money & so forth.

[#12fan]

I don`t necessarily agree about a coach trying to lose a game. In a merit system the ultimate goal would be to produce a program that competes in the top level. That`s what would identify a good coach...one that would be able to take programs and move them up to a higher level. If a coach is worth his salt, he`ll do everything he can to reach that highest level.

 

I don`t really buy the money thing either. Any disparity in finances appears at all levels. There are public schools in more affluential urban areas that compete against public schools in inner city areas with a very low economic situation. Someone from Germantown posted here once that theor baseball budget was near 100,000 dollars. At the time JCM was competing at that same level. We had worked very hard to raise money and I thought had done a very good job and we were around 20,000 dollars.So IMO fussing about money is just a waste of time. There will always be programs that will have better sources to raise it than others. Folks need to realize this and stop trying to use it as an excuse.

 

VolunteerGeneral: I agree with you that a GOOD coach would do the things you talk about here. However, as I'm sure you will agree, there are coaches out there who will do most anything to benefit their program wether it's football or softball or whatever, including lose games (or at least not try hard to win them) and therefore they would be exploiting the merit system for their own benefit. I also agree with you that there are public schools that have the same budget for sports as privates. But also as a general rule (not every single person) the parents that can afford to write a check for tuition for thousands of dollars can afford to donate for better equipment, better instruction (usually from private instructors) better facilities, etc.. I don't blame them. If I could afford to do this I would do it too. It's not necessarily true that private SCHOOLS have more money, but private PARENTS usually do.

Edited May 30, 2006 by #12fan

[VolunteerGeneral]

VolunteerGeneral: I agree with you that a GOOD coach would do the things you talk about here. However, as I'm sure you will agree, there are coaches out there who will do most anything to benefit their program wether it's football or softball or whatever, including lose games (or at least not try hard to win them) and therefore they would be exploiting the merit system for their own benefit. I also agree with you that there are public schools that have the same budget for sports as privates. But also as a general rule (not every single person) the parents that can afford to write a check for tuition for thousands of dollars can afford to donate for better equipment, better instruction (usually from private instructors) better facilities, etc.. I don't blame them. If I could afford to do this I would do it too. It's not necessarily true that private SCHOOLS have more money, but private PARENTS usually do.

 

I still don`t understand how losing makes you better.

 

As to the other...I`m saying that the financial disparities are there at all levels. Let`s just imagine for a moment that we had a total split and publics competed against publics and the same for privates. There will still be huge differences in all classes among the publics. For example...let`s take Rutherford County. Name all the private schools in that county. There is a pretty small Middle Tennessee Christian School which has been there for at least 20 years and is just now starting a football team. The public schools are Riverdale, Smyrna, Lavergne, Oakland, Siegal. Blackmon, and Eagleville. All of those schools with the exception of Eagleville are 5A schools in football. Yet Rutherford County has one private school with a student enrollment of 171 kids.

 

Now take Madison County for example. There is JCM 4A, Liberty 4A, Northside 4A, Southside3A. (there is also madison which doesn`t have a football team) Yet in this county there are 3 football playing private schools. USJ 2A (378 kids) JCS 2A (251 kids) and TCA 1A (214 kids) That`s 843 kids that attend private schools. Now compare that to the number of kids attending public playing football school in the county which is 3,693. Yet in Rutherford you have 171 private kids compared to over 10,000 public school kids.

 

So basically in Rutherford County all those "private school parents" that you talk about (the ones who can write those checks) have their kids in public schools. Whereas in Madison County it is quite different.

 

So if you want to talk about money, Rutherford County has far more advantages than Madison County in regards to public schools. So frankly I don`t care to hear about public schools complaining about money disadvantages because those advantages run throughout the whole system whether you are public or private.

[Indian]

Rutherford parents can send their kids to metro Nashville private schools. No need for a new one in-county.