open enrollment?

[Buzzman]

Here is what the Chattanooga teams could be in a merit system, based on computer rankings from the end of last year. I divided all teams into an equal number, five classes.

 

5A

1-McCallie

2-Baylor

3-Red Bank

4-Ooltewah

5-Tyner

6-Notre Dame

7-Rhea County

 

4A

1-Cleveland

2-Soddy-Daisy

3-Polk County

4-East Ridge

5-McMinn County

6-Boyd-Buchanan

7-Hixson

 

3A

1-South Pittsburg

2-Marion County

3-Meigs County

 

2A

1-Sequatchie County

2-Brainerd

3-Grundy County

4-Howard

5-Walker Valley

6-Bradley Central

7-Chattanooga Central

8-Bledsoe County

 

1A

1-Whitwell

2-Temple

3-Lookout Valley

4-Tellico Plains

5-Copper Basin

6-Chattanooga Grace

7-Silverdale Academy

8-David Brainerd

 

It looks good, until you look at 3A with only three teams. The closest 3A level teams to Marion and South Pittsburg would be Coffee County, Franklin County and Huntland, which would not be bad trips, but where does that leave Meigs? Lenoir City was the closest to Meigs, and no way could they be in a group with Coffee and Franklin, or South Pittsburg or Marion.

Another problem, look at 2A. Probably examples throughout the groupings. Sequatchie was the top level team in this projected 2A, Chattanooga area, according to the computer. This year though, they'd be better off in the 1A-and actually have lost to Temple, Whitwell, Silverdale and were beaten in the jamboree by Lookout Valley. Last year they lost several games by around a touchdown, with any kind of luck, in these projections, they'd be in 3A and this year would have little chance of competing. Just using that team as an example, but a team can compete well for a couple of years with a better than average group of athletes, move up in class and go 1-9, 0-10 when the athletes are back to normal, and that can severely hurt a program, get a coach fired when a team is playing above its level even for a short time.

 

That looks pretty good Indian. This coming from someone against any separate divisions or a multiplier. I'm not sure Boyd should be in 4A or Tyner in 5A, but I understand this is just a rough draft. What might be better is to go back down to just 4 classes, or maybe even 3, instead of the 5. You could place all of the large division II schools in 4A/3A, of course, in separate regions and go from there based on computer rankings. You're not going to be able to make everyone happy, but a merit system might be the best solution possible?

[Indian]

Here are the teams, divided into 5 classes as such would be done in a merit system. An easy problem to spot would be Livingston Academy, they might not jump to 5A necessarily after one good season but such a high finish might cause a team like that to be playing way out of its league the next year-or two, however such a system would work. Same for Notre Dame, also in 5A in this group.

 

5A

1-Ravenwood

2-Maryville

3-Alcoa

4-Oak Ridge

5-ECS

6-Melrose

7-MUS

8-Livingston Academy

9-Riverdale

10-CBHS

11-MBA

12-McCallie

13-Knoxville Central

14-Hillsboro

15-Cookeville

16-Baylor

17-Fulton

18-BA

19-Ridgeway

20-Brentwood

21-Dobyns-Bennett

22-Franklin

23-Germantown

24-Trousdale County

25-Wilson Central

26-Lipscomb

27-Memphis East

28-Gallatin

29-Farragut

30-Red Bank

31-Huntingdon

32-Morristown West

33-Ooltewah

34-Tyner

35-Goodpasture

36-Smyrna

37-Whites Creek

38-Catholic

39-William Blount

40-White Station

41-Webb

42-Central-Merry

43-Sevier County

44-Powell

45-Loudon

46-Halls

47-Notre Dame

48-Austin East

49-Briarcrest

50-Milan

51-Rhea County

52-Cheatham County

53-Lavergne

54-Nashville Overton

55-Covington

56-Beech

57-Whitehaven

58-Hardin County

59-Bolton

60-Knoxville West

61-Jackson Christian

62-Lexington

63-Science Hill

64-Union City

65-CPA

 

4A

66 COLLIERVILLE

67 McGAVOCK

68 BEARDEN

69 MAPLEWOOD

70 HOUSTON

71 FATHER RYAN

72 BRISTOL TENNESSEE HIGH

73 WHITE HOUSE

74 HENRY COUNTY

75 KINGSTON

76 GREENBRIER

77 PEARL-COHN

78 ANTIOCH

79 TULLAHOMA

80 DYERSBURG

81 ANDERSON COUNTY

82 WESTVIEW

83 CLEVELAND

84 SULLIVAN SOUTH

85 POPE JOHN PAUL

86 CROCKETT COUNTY

87 LIBERTY MAGNET

88 HAYWOOD COUNTY

89 DICKSON COUNTY

90 G. W. CARVER

91 MT. PLEASANT

92 CREEK WOOD

93 CARTER

94 KARNS

95 WHITE COUNTY

96 SODDY DAISY

97 CLARKSVILLE

98 LEBANON

99 CHRISTIAN ACADEMY KNOXVILLE (CAK)

100 DONELSON CHRISTIAN ACADEMY (DCA)

101 SMITH COUNTY

102 EAST ROBERTSON

103 MILLINGTON

104 KENWOOD

105 LINCOLN COUNTY

106 MITCHELL

107 DANIEL BOONE

108 JO BYRNS

109 EZELL-HARDING

110 FAYETTE ACADEMY

111 HENDERSONVILLE

112 CORDOVA

113 CAMDEN

114 FRIENDSHIP CHRISTIAN

115 POLK COUNTY

116 MARYVILLE-HERITAGE

117 ELIZABETHTON

118 RIPLEY

119 EAST RIDGE

120 DRESDEN

121 LEWIS COUNTY

122 HUNTERS LANE

123 McMINN COUNTY

124 WOODDALE

125 DAVIDSON ACADEMY

126 HAMILTON

127 BOYD-BUCHANAN

128 BRIGHTON

129 CENTENNIAL

130 HIXON

 

3A

131 SIEGEL

132 ROCKWOOD

133 OAKLAND

134 FRANKLIN COUNTY

135 SOUTH GREENE

136 HARDING ACADEMY

137 TREZEVANT

138 SPRINGFIELD

139 COLLINWOOD

140 PAGE

141 RIVERSIDE

142 WARREN COUNTY

143 SOUTH PITTSBURG

144 MORRISTOWN EAST

145 FAIRVIEW

146 FAIRLEY

147 COFFEE COUNTY

148 SHEFFIELD

149 JACKSON SOUTH SIDE

150 LENOIR CITY

151 JEFFERSON COUNTY

152 RALEIGH-EGYPT

153 KINGSBURY

154 CUMBERLAND COUNTY

155 WESTMORLAND

156 MT. JULIET

157 COLUMBIA

158 OBION COUNTY

159 CHESTER COUNTY

160 McNAIRY CENTRAL

161 CRAIGMONT

162 MUNFORD

163 McKENZIE

164 PORTLAND

165 CHEROKEE

166 INDEPENDENCE

167 HUNTLAND

168 MACON COUNTY

169 MARION COUNTY

170 MARSHALL COUNTY

171 GILES COUNTY

172 BATTLE GROUND ACADEMY (BGA)

173 SEYMOUR

174 GLENCLIFF

175 HAMPTON

176 GORDONSVILLE

177 GREENEVILLE

178 BLACKMAN

179 RICHLAND

180 JACKSON NORTHSIDE

181 LAWRENCE COUNTY

182 PEABODY

183 COALFIELD

184 KIRBY

185 FRAYSER

186 JOHNSON COUNTY

187 BARTLETT

188 SULLIVAN NORTH

189 OLIVER SPRINGS

190 WAYNE COUNTY

191 COLUMBIA ACADEMY

192 MEIGS COUNTY

193 CUMBERLAND GAP

194 HUMBOLDT

195 STATION CAMP

 

2A

196 SULLIVAN CENTRAL

197 SYCAMORE

198 STRATFORD

199 SEQUATCHIE COUNTY

200 BRAINERD

201 GRUNDY COUNTY

202 HAPPY VALLEY

203 HILLWOOD

204 ST. BENEDICT

205 DYER COUNTY

206 ST. GEORGE'S

207 CLOUDLAND

208 CLARKSVILLE NE

209 SHELBYVILLE

210 CLARKSVILLE NW

211 HOWARD

212 BISHOP BYRNE

213 SULLIVAN EAST

214 WAVERLY

215 FRANKLIN ROAD ACADEMY

216 MEMPHIS OVERTON

217 LAKE COUNTY

218 SWEETWATER

219 WEST CARROLL

220 SOUTH DOYLE

221 ROSSVIEW

222 HICKMAN COUNTY

223 SCOTT COUNTY

224 CAMPBELL COUNTY

225 MOORE COUNTY

226 WALKER VALLEY

227 MIDWAY

228 MONTGOMERY CENTRAL

229 PIGEON FORGE

230 SPRING HILL

231 BRADLEY CENTRAL

232 UNION COUNTY

233 UNIVERSITY SCHOOL of JACKSON (USJ)

234 CLINTON

235 YORK INSTITUTE

236 FAYETTE-WARE

237 TREADWELL

238 CHATTANOOGA CENTRAL

239 EAGLEVILLE

240 VOLUNTEER

241 MANASSAS

242 S. BAPTIST EDU. CENTER (SBEC)

243 B. T. WASHINGTON

244 LORETTO

245 RUTLEDGE

246 HILLCREST

247 WATERTOWN

248 COCKE COUNTY

249 McEWEN

250 MEMPHIS CENTRAL

251 GIBSON COUNTY

252 GATLINBURG-PITTMAN

253 BLEDSOE COUNTY

254 McMINN CENTRAL

255 HARPETH

256 WESTWOOD

257 WARTBURG CENTRAL

258 HARRIMAN

 

 

1A

259 WHITWELL

260 PERRY COUNTY

261 CLAIRBORNE COUNTY

262 HOLLOW ROCK-BRUCETON

263 CANNON COUNTY

264 GREENBACK

265 UPPERMAN

266 CASCADE

267 FIRST ASSEMBLY CHRISTIAN (FACS)

268 TEMPLE

269 FORREST

270 ONEIDA

271 MEMPHIS NORTHSIDE

272 MONTEREY

273 UNICOI COUNTY

274 LOOKOUT VALLEY

275 SEQUOYAH

276 GLEASON

277 ENSWORTH

278 ADAMSVILLE

279 ROSEMARK

280 SUNBRIGHT

281 GIBBS

282 MEMPHIS SOUTH SIDE

283 STEWART COUNTY

284 UNAKA

285 TELLICO PLAINS

286 SOUTH FULTON

287 NORTH GREENE

288 HOUSTON COUNTY

289 COPPER BASIN

290 TAFT YOUTH CENTER

291 TRINITY CHRISTIAN

292 WHITE HOUSE-HERITAGE

293 ARLINGTON

294 HALLS

295 COSBY

296 NASHVILLE CHRISTIAN

297 BOLIVAR CENTRAL

298 DAVID CROCKETT

299 CLAY COUNTY

300 MEMPHIS CATHOLIC

301 OAKDALE

302 OAKHAVEN

303 CORNERSVILLE

304 KINGS ACADEMY

305 JACKSON COUNTY

306 DeKALB COUNTY

307 GREENFIELD

308 CHUCKEY-DOAK

309 GRACE BAPTIST

310 MIDDLETON

311 MIDDLE TENNESSEE CHRISTIAN

312 MEMPHIS WESTSIDE

313 SILVERDALE ACADEMY

314 CLARKSVILLE ACADEMY

315 ZION CHRISTIAN

316 MT. JULIET CHRISTIAN ACADEMY

317 GRACE CHRISTIAN

318 LIGHTHOUSE CHRISTIAN ACADEMY

319 DAVID BRAINERD CHRISTIAN

320 ST. ANDREW'S-SEWANEE (SAS)

321 JELLICO

322 WEST GREENE

323 Red Boiling Springs

[Buzzman]

I like those classifications. I would tweek just one thing in the merit system. This one caught my eye. According to this system, you have 4A Memphis Northside playing 1A ball. I know they struggle in 4A, but who knows what they could do in 1A. Therefore, I would make it where a team can only move down two classifications. On the other hand, any team that can play at the highest classification should. Example: Alcoa, a 2A school, playing in 5A. No problem. But a 5A size school moving down to 2A, or even 1A maybe, shouldn't happen. To sum up, 5A can move as low as 3A, 4A can move as low as 2A, etc. Let's face it, if you you are a 5A size school and you can't compete in 3A, there's nothing the TSSAA can do for you. That's something you have to take care of yourself.

[montague1]

I like those classifications. I would tweek just one thing in the merit system. This one caught my eye. According to this system, you have 4A Memphis Northside playing 1A ball. I know they struggle in 4A, but who knows what they could do in 1A. Therefore, I would make it where a team can only move down two classifications. On the other hand, any team that can play at the highest classification should. Example: Alcoa, a 2A school, playing in 5A. No problem. But a 5A size school moving down to 2A, or even 1A maybe, shouldn't happen. To sum up, 5A can move as low as 3A, 4A can move as low as 2A, etc. Let's face it, if you you are a 5A size school and you can't compete in 3A, there's nothing the TSSAA can do for you. That's something you have to take care of yourself.

 

That and the fact that some smaller schools having to play in the 5A bracket would have a huge disadvantage in depth. A few injuries in a small school could ruin the season, whereas the bigger schools have a bigger talent pool and would be able to survive. Maybe if schools could only move up or down 2 classifications from the system we currently use then it would be more of an even playing field in the merit system.

[tnsddeveloper]

That and the fact that some smaller schools having to play in the 5A bracket would have a huge disadvantage in depth. A few injuries in a small school could ruin the season, whereas the bigger schools have a bigger talent pool and would be able to survive. Maybe if schools could only move up or down 2 classifications from the system we currently use then it would be more of an even playing field in the merit system.

Would they? Alcoa doesn't seem to have a depth problem. Nor does Goodpasture or CPA - both 1A enrollments. That is the beauty of the merit system ... you play yourself into the class that you belong ... all determined on the field ... not with facilities, money, etc.

[montague1]

Would they? Alcoa doesn't seem to have a depth problem. Nor does Goodpasture or CPA - both 1A enrollments. That is the beauty of the merit system ... you play yourself into the class that you belong ... all determined on the field ... not with facilities, money, etc.

 

Some schools would I think. Huntingdon is listed in 5A, and they are having a hard time competing in 2A because of injuries. I'm sure some smaller schools would do just fine.

[cbg]

Has the TSSAA board of control given the merit system full consideration? Would they consider the merit system or would they use the excuse that no school has presented the idea to them? IMO the merit system would work best by also including the following:

TSSAA would have 4 classifications for football.

No regular season game to be played before the Friday before Labor Day.

The 1st official football practice would be the 2nd Monday of August.

With some school systems having "year around" school schedules no school would be allowed to have 2-a-day football practices anymore to make it fair for the players already in school.

The top 16 teams in each division would go to the state playoffs.

All schools would play a 10 game schedule and teams that fail to qualify for the playoffs but have won 6 or more games may attend 1 bowl game at the end of the regular season if they are invited.

The TSSAA should recive 1/3 of the gross gate receipts with each participating school receiving 1/3 of the gross gate receipts for the playoffs and bowl games. The home team would be responsible for payment of the game officials and the chain gang.

[big red big blue]

The thing about a merit system is that it wouldn't need to be as dramatic as it appears on paper sometimes. And it certainly would not cause rescheduling every year, etc.

 

I would bet that if 20 people who really knew TN HS football sat down and segmented all of the teams in TN into 4 classes based on merit, accomplishment, and just a general "where they ought to be," they could create a fair class system that would almost never need to be adjusted; they could get everyone right where they ought to be. I bet the original classification system could last for 10 years without need for a change. So, imo, the real value that would be created with a merit system would be that initial class creation...I think it would be more an "eyeball" test than an exact science. And honestly, I think most of us know who the real "offenders" are that need to be moved up or down. It probably would look the same as the current system with only a handful of teams moved up or down a class.

 

I would think only extreme, extreme cases would result in a move up or down after that initial segmentation. I am talking multiple consecutive winless seasons, or multiple consecutive undefeated state title seasons. The goal wouldn't be to create a situation where there is perfect parity and everyone on average is 5-5. Nor would it be to punish success and reward failure. It would almost just be a common sense test approach....

[lazarus]

"Has the TSSAA board of control given the merit system full consideration?"

 

i am under the impression that silverfly at least attempted to present a proposal,

i dont know how far that got.

i have brought the subject up on a couple of occasions to a member of the board of control.

my impression is that;

a) you dont advance in public school administration by not listening courteously and

you dont advance in public school administration by getting anywhere near the cutting edge.

 

no merit system will be considered without the support of someone influential.

 

maybe, just maybe, if the privates could present a fairly united front, and pull in support from a few of the publics, you could at least get a foot in the door.

 

anyone have any other ideas?

 

ps. sorry about the smiley face. i dont know how it got in there, and i dont know how to remove it.

Edited October 6, 2006 by lazarus

[Bighurt]

Laz,

I am sorry to say that I agree with you regarding a merit system.

 

In my opinon, the TSSAA Board of Control and Legislative Council members are more concerned with maintaining their power base than representing the schools in their athletic district or passing legislation that promotes high school athletics in general. Therefore, proposals that promote the common good take a back seat to legislation which caters to the wishes of an influential few such as the creation of Division II (see Riverdale) and the multiplier (Collinwood).

 

Again. JMHO.

Edited October 7, 2006 by Bighurt

[ksgovols]

It's hard to argue against anything that is based on merit and I agree that there would be little tweaking to the system. How travel might be reduced would be a selling point and that's where I think a 4 class system might help. Some states also used a point system that awards points for winning against teams within your classificaton and more points for those that are above with no points rewarded for wins against teams below you in classification.

 

When the current system has teams in the same conference from the Alabama line to the Kentucky line and some DII's that are traveling across the state, travel is not the consideration that some might suggest.

[VolunteerGeneral]

How did you come up with those Indian?