Soccer Lawsuit in Williamson Co

[kickgrass]

This is not about soccer, it's not about sports, it's about today's society, where people that don't get things just the way that they want run out and hire an attorney to collect retribution for their imagined wrongs. Maybe make a buck or 2.

 

Shame on them for handling this manner in this way.

[Hoya]

QUOTE(Cheamilion @ Mar 27 2007 - 12:23 PM) 826423940[/snapback]About the Two referre system. It may be true that this isn't always the safest or smartest way to handle a situation. But for some teams, as in mine, it is the only way.

 

We typicaly make $130 at most on gate and concessions. We have to spend $110 on refs. Some Schools just can't afford to bring in 3 refs in every game.

 

 

Like stevescarb, I have also heard of this problem before. I have two comments---not criticisms.

 

First, I don't understand why any school would expect their gate and concessions to fund 100% of the refs' cost, especially in a so-called "minor" sport where a gate is simply not something you can count on. Officiating is as much a part of the sport's costs as field maintenance and it should be in the school's sports budget at the start of the season--just like grass cutting, equipment, travel expenses, coach's compensation, etc.. Gates and concessions are great, but they can't be relied on, especially at smaller schools in a "lesser" sport like soccer.

 

Second, if you factor in the risk of loss in a dual v. a three man team, I suspect that the third ref is a bargain. I guarantee you, Williamson Co. could hire a lot of refs for the money they are now spending defending this goofy claim.

 

If the extra money is really a deal breaker for a school, I'd either ask the opponent for some help as stevescarb suggested or I'd forgo the second ref in favor of a couple of unpaid club linesmen. The risks of the dual system just aren't worth it.

[Soccer Gypsy]

What is the difference in cost between the two and three ref system?

[BigG]

QUOTE(Soccer Gypsy @ Mar 28 2007 - 11:25 AM) 826424889[/snapback]What is the difference in cost between the two and three ref system?

 

Not very much... I think we pay $55 $45 $45 for three man and $55 $55 for 2 man. (so, $35)

[Hoya]

QUOTE(kickgrass @ Mar 27 2007 - 08:30 PM) 826424317[/snapback]This is not about soccer, it's not about sports, it's about today's society, where people that don't get things just the way that they want run out and hire an attorney to collect retribution for their imagined wrongs. Maybe make a buck or 2.

 

Shame on them for handling this manner in this way.

 

 

Amen. /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

 

I don't doubt at all that this player was significantly injured and that the family incurred significant medical costs. From what I've read; however, the ref was right up on the collision and saw the incident. He supposedly immediately ruled the play as a 50/50 ball where one player clearly "lost" the battle and was hurt. No fouls, no cautions and no red cards were issued. I also have heard that there was some initial bleeding, but that the injured player cleaned up and continued in the match, not realizing the full extent of his injuries which were not discovered until after the match. I don't know if that is true because I wasn't there.

 

Regardless, assuming, and I do, that the player was injured and required significant medical attention, I don't understand why the school system's insurer didn't immediately provide coverage for him and his family.

 

Similarly, I cannot for the life of me think that the family of the injured player has handled this situation in an appropriate manner. I have personally seen and been involved in far more significant injuries (fractured skulls, unconciousness, severe concussions, broken orbital) in a very similar situation at the State club championships. BOTH affected teams totally blamed the other player initially. BOTH saw it only one way, their way, and BOTH made initial claims that the other player intended to hurt their player. Eventually, BOTH backed off, listened to reasonable third parties---including but not limited to the ref----and BOTH eventually recognized that neither kid intentionally tried to hurt the other---they were just trying to make a play.

 

Sports injuries happen. COURTS SHOULD NEVER BE INVOLVED UNLESS THERE IS CLEAR AND CONVINCING PROOF OF AN INTENTION TO INJURE. Is there any evidence of an intent to injure in this case other than the biased perspective of related witnesses?

 

Finally, the District Attorney General in Williamson Co. better have some really strong, unbiased, objective proof of a crime. Without it, she is about to play out a mini version of the Duke lacrosse case in my opinion. Just waiting for the kids' 18th birthday to pass before a public arrest was sleazy in my opinion.

[soccerfan034]

I would like to clear things up alittle bit. Yhere were 2 refs at this particular game. The injured player was dribbling the ball up field and had passed it off when the "other"player went down into a football stance and punched the injured player in the face. The reason the ref didn't see it was he was watching the ball that was up field. The injured player was on the grond bleeding from his eye and mouth. the ref told him to get off the field not knowing how severly injured he was. The player from Page high was high fiving and laughing at the player on the ground. When the injured player came off the field he said he punched me. As far as injuries go, soccer is riddled with them, if this would have been a leagal slide or going for a ball there would be NO Question. But the fact is this thug had started more than one fight in his "career" and is a thug. Not a soccer player. I know the injured player and he has had injuries from slides to being stepped on and a law suit never came into play. One coach had warned the page coaches about his violent tendancies, the school did nothing. Nowthis family is faced with mounting medical bills that arent being payed by their insurance company because it was a school activitiy. The injured player went through 4 hrs of plastic surgery to repair the damage. he was out of school for almost 9 wks. He still is suffering with nerve damage. and as far as the Page payer he was indicted. It took 8 months due to investigations. some which are still on going. Can you honestly say Shame on the parents of the injured player? How about shame on the parents of the "aggressive" player and the coaches for knowing but not acting. It is pitiful that the blame is being put on one family and not the other. I believe a 3 ref system is best but you have some that don't want to pay,

[hamlet7478]

I'm assuming what soccerfan says is true. This definitely is a horse of a different color.

 

I still agree with the excellent comments provided by posters on the 3 ref system. For another $30 - $40, take a collection up among the parents or something.

 

This whole affair as described by soccerfan is very depressing for this soccer follower. There's a thug who somehow thinks it's okay to sucker punch another player, gloat about it, it does not get seen by the ref's, and so on. For a sport that wants to see itself as mature in the State of TN, it should be unthinkable that something like this would happen.

[soccerfan034]

QUOTE(hamlet7478 @ Mar 29 2007 - 09:26 AM) 826425637[/snapback]I'm assuming what soccerfan says is true. This definitely is a horse of a different color.

 

I still agree with the excellent comments provided by posters on the 3 ref system. For another $30 - $40, take a collection up among the parents or something.

 

This whole affair as described by soccerfan is very depressing for this soccer follower. There's a thug who somehow thinks it's okay to sucker punch another player, gloat about it, it does not get seen by the ref's, and so on. For a sport that wants to see itself as mature in the State of TN, it should be unthinkable that something like this would happen.

 

 

 

 

I would have no problem donating to the 3 ref system. The problem is the shortage of refs for the age group.

[Hoya]

soccerfan034, my only concern is that I don't want questionable sports calls resolved in courts. It is that simple to me.

 

I would readily admit that the facts you have reported describe an assault, not fair play. My problem is that other claimed witnesses have reported that they actually witnessed the event and saw a 50/50 collision. I have no doubt the young man was injured and that he has suffered damages. The only question is was it a sports injury or an assault?

 

You didn't say anywhere in your post that you personally saw the incident. Are you describing what you actually saw or what others have told you and what you believe to be true? According to cbusoccer13 above, for example, that poster says he/she actually witnessed the incident and it was a 50/50 collision while the injured player chased a blind ball right into Page's center back. How can someone who was not there (like a judge) account for the differences in these reports?

 

Somebody is clearly not correct about what happened; however, when you factor in differences in distances, angles and multiple perceptual biases for any witness (and we all have them), it is not hard to understand how two different people could see the same event and honestly describe it very differently.

 

These differences perfectly describe my problem with criminally charging an 18 year old and with fighting this kind of incident out in court. This case will end up in a swearing contest where, most likely, no one will "win". If there was irrefutable proof of assaultive conduct---such as a film---maybe this incident has a place in civil court. Apparently such proof doesn't exist in this case or by now surely someone would have reported it either here or in the Tennessean's comment section. It is going to be one well-meaning person's word against another's. As for the criminal charges, without proof beyond a reasonable doubt of criminal intent by the Page player, the criminal case should fail. I am surprised by the prosecutor's reaction in the absence of a film or some other irrefutable proof of a crime.

[soccerfan034]

I see your point about having things in court. I actually was at the game and I witnessed first hand the fist marks on the players face. The grand jury had enough physical evidence to indict the page player and and if the school sysyem would have poid the hazard insurance this probably wouldn't have had to go to court. How many other players have to get hurt before someone makes a stand, I myself would have done the same thing in the same position as this family The page player got 18 months probation yes I said he made a plee deal. you don't do that unless you are guilty.

 

I understand about angles and all that. I was in a position where I sas the hit, I see it evertime I close my evesi Did you know Through the tennessean the this same player from page started other fist fights after this insicent. How much is enough??

I watched a game tongiht that 2 players went for a header andcollided. That to me is a soccer injury. a fist to the face and not a blind ball is what happened.

 

I love the game of soccer, I envie those who can play it with class. Players like the one from Page give the sport a bad name as well as the families trying to do the right thing.

[adidasking]

If there is substantial evidence showing a flagrant foul in which Page's player intentionally injured Seth, then actions should be taken while the player was in his high school season. A lawsuit should not be filed on the basis of that the kid is playing a sport. The fact that this case has been taken to court shows that maybe there is a little more to it than just a foul, but in my own opinion I feel that the player from Page just played aggressively, it resulted in an injury, and the parents of the Indepence player are unwilling to admit to the fact that soccer can get rough. If you're this afraid of aggressive play, try covering your son in bubble wrap. Look it happens, players get caught up in the game and take out their aggression, but thats part of the game. Drop the lawsuit, recoup your losses and get over it. End of story.

[cbusoccer13]

QUOTE(soccerfan034 @ Mar 29 2007 - 10:00 PM) 826426227[/snapback]I see your point about having things in court. I actually was at the game and I witnessed first hand the fist marks on the players face. The grand jury had enough physical evidence to indict the page player and and if the school sysyem would have poid the hazard insurance this probably wouldn't have had to go to court. How many other players have to get hurt before someone makes a stand, I myself would have done the same thing in the same position as this family The page player got 18 months probation yes I said he made a plee deal. you don't do that unless you are guilty.

 

I understand about angles and all that. I was in a position where I sas the hit, I see it evertime I close my evesi Did you know Through the tennessean the this same player from page started other fist fights after this insicent. How much is enough??

I watched a game tongiht that 2 players went for a header andcollided. That to me is a soccer injury. a fist to the face and not a blind ball is what happened.

 

I love the game of soccer, I envie those who can play it with class. Players like the one from Page give the sport a bad name as well as the families trying to do the right thing.

 

 

I want everyone to know that I played soccer for many years at a very high level and it is amazing to me that some people post comments on here with an attitude. Some people have never played the sport and do not understand what happens on the field. I hope everyone posting on this issue understands and knows that the IHS player is back on the field and playing this season in high school and club. Yes, he might have gone through some emotional stress from the injury but obviously he is well enough to be back on the field. This is where I lose compassion for the issue. If the player's career was over, maybe, but not sidelined for a few months. It is a joke! There is a lot of "history" behind this case and the aggressors of the issue. Just let this go to rest and stop the mess around a great game.