The Countdown Begins...

[BDURHAM]

Then the letter was more of a recruiting violation that I had thought.

There was a race to get the kids to campus -- so that they would not

change their minds and go practice with their designated public school.

 

And the recruiting process certainly begins in the middle school years

during this time period -- before the kid stepped on a high school

practice field.

 

Clears up the mystery why Flatt was contacting the kids so early.

 

QUOTE(itzme @ Apr 20 2007 - 08:28 AM) 826441732[/snapback]Wrong.

 

That was not the rule in 1997. It was changed by TSSAA only a few years ago.

 

...apology accepted.

[itzme]

QUOTE(StanTrott @ Apr 20 2007 - 04:21 PM) 826442017[/snapback]Then the letter was more of a recruiting violation that I had thought.

There was a race to get the kids to campus -- so that they would not

change their minds and go practice with their designated public school.

 

And the recruiting process certainly begins in the middle school years

during this time period -- before the kid stepped on a high school

practice field.

 

Clears up the mystery why Flatt was contacting the kids so early.

 

 

This nonsense is why I so seldom post in this forum anymore except to correct factual errors. Your argument is so flawed that I won't respond...none is really needed and in fact I surely hope you don't decide to delete it. People with objectivity should be able to see your true colors.

 

Stan, why can't you just "man-up" and say that you were mistaken about what you stated, and leave it at that? Nobody on here will think any less of you as a person because you made your first error ever in a post!

[Bill#49]

QUOTE(StanTrott @ Apr 20 2007 - 04:21 PM) 826442017[/snapback]Then the letter was more of a recruiting violation that I had thought.

There was a race to get the kids to campus -- so that they would not

change their minds and go practice with their designated public school.

 

And the recruiting process certainly begins in the middle school years

during this time period -- before the kid stepped on a high school

practice field.

 

Clears up the mystery why Flatt was contacting the kids so early.

 

 

Transcript of the case.

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/oral_argumen...ipts/06-427.pdf

 

After reading the case, it seems to me that the kid's parents did sign a non-binding contract with BA. These same parents could during any time prior to paying their money and officially enrolling their child in BA go elsewhere.

 

This reminds me of graduating seniors who "commit" to one university then at the last minute switch and go elsewhere. Just think what Coach Fulmer, Spurrier, Richt, or any great recruiter could do if they could invite those kids to come watch spring practice at their places before officially signing a letter of intent. For BA to say this is not undo pressure to recruit is very strange to me.

[Bighurt]

I find the argument that these enrollment contracts are non-binding very interesting. I have served on the board of a private school. Our policy was, and still is as far as I know, that these contracts obligated the families to satisfy the financial requirements set forth in the contract - i.e. the school will provide the student a spot at the school and in turn, the parent(s)or guardian(s) are responsible to complete the financial terms of the contract. It is my understanding that enrollment contract used at most private school are pretty much the same.

 

Ms. Mahoney argues that because not every student who signs an enrollment contract with a school ends up going to that school that these contracts is non-binding. She also indicates that she has no evidence demonstrating that students have signed multiple contracts.

 

I am not a legal expert. So, I don't know what issues might influence the ultimate decision. I do think this case may affect the way that enrollment contracts are viewed.

[BLUEMOM]

As a parent who signs one of the those enrollment contracts, it clearly states that the document is binding financial contract and that my husband and I are financially responsible for the entire tuition should our child leave the school for ANY reason (our choice, their choice, death etc...). Ten percent of the tuition is required to accompany this contract every spring (approx $1700). I don't know about some, but that is pretty binding to me and my intent to enroll is very clear.

 

IMO, once a signed enrollment contract with deposit is received, that student should be counted as an enrolled student. I believe that TSSAA has a different opinion -- so many days of school attended? Which if that is the case how do freshmen participate in June/July/August with workouts etc...

[VolunteerGeneral]

How come coaches from public high schools can go to middle schools in the spring and talk to potential future athletes?

[BDURHAM]

Bluemom,

 

Thank you for your post. Only the TSSAA can fully answer your question,

but I believe the rule is that a freshman must be enrolled for three days

before he can suit and practice. This rule predominantly is designed to

protect the kid. The freshman may show up at a new school and decide

to not stay at the school. If the kid had participated in three days of

practice before school started, then he would lose a season (or year?)

of eligibility.

 

When one becomes entrenched in either side of the argument, it is easy

to forget the bigger picture. Recruiting is not good for educational athletics

on a high school level. Many public and private coaches have violated this

principle and TSSAA rule.

 

For the sake of perspective, please consider how the NCAA offers scholarships.

A school/team can offer a scholarship now, but the kid cannot sign papers

obligating himself to that school until February 6, 2008. That is to protect the

kid from making a rash decision.

 

On the high school level, we do not want coaches recruiting middle school and

high school student athletes. Rules have been designed and modified because coaches

have violated the existing rules. Although “the rule” may not make complete and total

sense, it is designed to prevent recruiting.

 

As we have witnessed, when a school takes the issue to the Supreme Court, even

the school makes the issue a matter of "free speech," and not the recruiting rule itself.

An objective observer could easily conclude that the school is trying to circumvent

the TSSAA rules through legal manipulation. Why would someone who is innocent

of recruiting make the claim that there should be no recruiting rules, or that the

present rule is too vague? Furthermore, the school claims that it is all about free speech.

 

The governing association's (TSSAA) rules make much more sense to me than BA's legal

foundation for opposing a $3,000 fine and probation. The reality is that BA violated

the rule, and must divert the attention of the evidence with smoke and mirrors.

 

Free speech? BA had the freedom to protest the rule before they violated it, and

chose not to work toward changing the rule through the association they freely chose

to join.

 

 

QUOTE(BLUEMOM @ Apr 21 2007 - 11:53 AM) 826442388[/snapback]As a parent who signs one of the those enrollment contracts, it clearly states that the document is binding financial contract and that my husband and I are financially responsible for the entire tuition should our child leave the school for ANY reason (our choice, their choice, death etc...). Ten percent of the tuition is required to accompany this contract every spring (approx $1700). I don't know about some, but that is pretty binding to me and my intent to enroll is very clear.

 

IMO, once a signed enrollment contract with deposit is received, that student should be counted as an enrolled student. I believe that TSSAA has a different opinion -- so many days of school attended? Which if that is the case how do freshmen participate in June/July/August with workouts etc...

[BDURHAM]

They can go to middle schools that are zoned for the high school.

 

If you don't like the rule, then change it.

 

How long have you been posting on this topic? Did you ask the question

in jest, or do you not know the TSSAA rules?

 

QUOTE(VolunteerGeneral @ Apr 21 2007 - 12:32 PM) 826442409[/snapback]How come coaches from public high schools can go to middle schools in the spring and talk to potential future athletes?

[BDURHAM]

The legal ramifications of the BA - TSSAA will probably go on forever.

 

But I do not see why enrollment and ensuring the proper teacher-student ratio,

textbooks, etc. are not separate from the athletic considerations.

 

There are laws that govern what a teacher can do or not do, and if the school

is certified with a particular association, there are particular requirements that

must be fulfilled.

 

If the tuba player wants to join the band and go to band competitions, are there

rules governing band competitions? Can a band take a tuba player to a competition

if the tuba player doesn't attend the school?

 

QUOTE(Bighurt @ Apr 21 2007 - 09:00 AM) 826442324[/snapback]I find the argument that these enrollment contracts are non-binding very interesting. I have served on the board of a private school. Our policy was, and still is as far as I know, that these contracts obligated the families to satisfy the financial requirements set forth in the contract - i.e. the school will provide the student a spot at the school and in turn, the parent(s)or guardian(s) are responsible to complete the financial terms of the contract. It is my understanding that enrollment contract used at most private school are pretty much the same.

 

Ms. Mahoney argues that because not every student who signs an enrollment contract with a school ends up going to that school that these contracts is non-binding. She also indicates that she has no evidence demonstrating that students have signed multiple contracts.

 

I am not a legal expert. So, I don't know what issues might influence the ultimate decision. I do think this case may affect the way that enrollment contracts are viewed.

[MPHSTIGERS87]

QUOTE(Bill#49 @ Apr 20 2007 - 10:56 PM) 826442184[/snapback]This reminds me of graduating seniors who "commit" to one university then at the last minute switch and go elsewhere. Just think what Coach Fulmer, Spurrier, Richt, or any great recruiter could do if they could invite those kids to come watch spring practice at their places before officially signing a letter of intent. For BA to say this is not undo pressure to recruit is very strange to me.[/b]

 

 

High school students can attend a spring practice game, they just cant participate.

 

QUOTE(StanTrott @ Apr 21 2007 - 03:26 PM) 826442443[/snapback]If the tuba player wants to join the band and go to band competitions, are there

rules governing band competitions? Can a band take a tuba player to a competition

if the tuba player doesn't attend the school?

 

 

Stan dont give analogies, they (privates) will feast on them. LOL.

[Itoldyouso]

QUOTE(BLUEMOM @ Apr 21 2007 - 12:53 PM) 826442388[/snapback]As a parent who signs one of the those enrollment contracts, it clearly states that the document is binding financial contract and that my husband and I are financially responsible for the entire tuition should our child leave the school for ANY reason (our choice, their choice, death etc...). Ten percent of the tuition is required to accompany this contract every spring (approx $1700). I don't know about some, but that is pretty binding to me and my intent to enroll is very clear.

 

IMO, once a signed enrollment contract with deposit is received, that student should be counted as an enrolled student. I believe that TSSAA has a different opinion -- so many days of school attended? Which if that is the case how do freshmen participate in June/July/August with workouts etc...

 

 

 

 

A friend has a daughter that attends BA. I ask him about this and he said that at BA a parent signs a letter in January with a deposit that is nonrefundable, but that the parents have until June 1st to make a final decision. So, the letter from Flatt, seems to me to be a "problem"!

[VolunteerGeneral]

QUOTE(StanTrott @ Apr 21 2007 - 03:22 PM) 826442441[/snapback]They can go to middle schools that are zoned for the high school.

 

If you don't like the rule, then change it.

 

How long have you been posting on this topic? Did you ask the question

in jest, or do you not know the TSSAA rules?

 

 

Stan..your post just shows how antiquated you and the TSSAA are, but since the TSSAA is governed by public schools I can see how the rules are slanted to favor public schools. The rule is a bad rule. If you had any sense of fairness then you`d agree that BA had every right to send those letters to kids that had signed contracts.

 

The fact is Stan that there are magnet schools. The fact is that there will be more magnet schools. Just because a kid is zoned to go to a certain high school in no way obligates him to go there. He has choices he can make. Tell me why it is fair for a coach from the zoned high school to be able to "pitch" his program to middle schoolers. Basically he has the opportunity to recruit kids and persuade them from attending a magnet school in another zone (or a private school for that matter). And that`s what it is...recruiting. What else could it be? If the kids are zoned to the coach`s school then they would naturally show up the next fall right? So what`s the need for contacting these kids when they are in middle school? You and the TSSAA need to get with the times and face the facts. But like I said before it`s the public schools that make the rules. Let public schools contact middle school kids in the spring, but we`ll be danged if we are gonna let a private school send a letter to a kid that has signed a contract.