5A vs. DII. Whos Stronger?

[ruse?]

This question arises around this time every year. Same song, second verse.

 

Maryville fans can make their claims about “best in state – all classifications” in some years (2005 and 2006 for example), and with just cause, although I’m not sure what MLREB’s comments about the 4A state title games have to do with the 4A classification as a whole versus other classes (it just says that Maryville, Melrose, Hillsboro, and a few others individually have great programs).

 

Similarly, 4A fans can make all the noise they want about their perceived equality with or superiority over 5A, although, based on the one year (2006) of data I have reviewed, the 4A vs. 5A series was tied at 40-40, with 4A generally putting up relatively stronger 4A programs versus relatively weaker 5A programs (I can provide further analysis if necessary). How 4A stacks up against 5A over a larger sample (longer period of time) would be interesting to see.

 

However, we do have a sample size of 10 years for how the largest DII class (formerly DII-Large, then DII-AAA, now DII-AA I believe; the former “Super 7” for those of you not averse to alliterative names) has performed against DI classes, and the numbers speak volumes from 1997-2006 (these numbers may be off a game or two by class, but not enough to change the story):

 

DII-Large/AAA (’97-’06)

vs 5A (66-25) .725

vs 4A (49-9) .845

vs 3A (8-1) .889

vs 2A (21-3) .875

vs 1A (4-0) 1.000

vs DI Total (148-38) .795

 

If anyone wants a breakout by DII school, I can provide that as well. Nevertheless, while each DI class has some stalwart programs that could compete with the largest DII class on any given night (even on down to 2A with a school like Alcoa), the fact of the matter remains that, head-to-head, DII-AAA has thrashed DI – to the tune of a 73% winning percentage versus 5A and 85% and greater versus each of the other classes (4A through 1A). Whether it’s raw W-L data, or any other anecdotal data (e.g., four 4A/5A champs suffering their only losses of the season at the hands of non-champs from DII-AAA), the data yields only one answer.

 

Once again, yes, Maryville is good. Alcoa is good. Riverdale is good. A lot of DI programs are good and, in a given year, can beat up on DII schools on any given night. Let’s not turn this into a public/private debate or a “but you wouldn’t want any piece of (insert quality DI program here)” argument. However, of the games that actually have been played (and it’s a who’s who of quality programs that DI has put up against DII-AAA), 5A has won 27% of the time, 4A 15% of the time, and DI as a whole about 21% of the time.

 

Therein lies your answer.

 

 

Thank you sir. Very nice.

[rappy]

Quite a few top 5A and4A teams are playing DII this year. After Week 6, a good indication will be based on the following games but I doubt it will prove anything conclusive.

Aug. 24: BA v. Independence

Aug. 24: MBA v. Antioch

Aug. 25: Christian Brothers v. Melrose

Aug. 31: BA v. Ravenwood

Aug. 31: McCallie v. Franklin

Aug. 32: Christian Brothers v. Ridgeway

Sept. 14: BA v. Smyrna

Sept. 14: MBA v. Hillsboro

Sept. 14: Father Ryan v. John Overton

Sept. 14: Christian Brothers v. Wooddale

Sept. 28: MBA v. Ravenwood

Oct. 5: MUS v. Cookeville

[brosbaseball9]

This question arises around this time every year. Same song, second verse.

 

Maryville fans can make their claims about “best in state – all classifications” in some years (2005 and 2006 for example), and with just cause, although I’m not sure what MLREB’s comments about the 4A state title games have to do with the 4A classification as a whole versus other classes (it just says that Maryville, Melrose, Hillsboro, and a few others individually have great programs).

 

Similarly, 4A fans can make all the noise they want about their perceived equality with or superiority over 5A, although, based on the one year (2006) of data I have reviewed, the 4A vs. 5A series was tied at 40-40, with 4A generally putting up relatively stronger 4A programs versus relatively weaker 5A programs (I can provide further analysis if necessary). How 4A stacks up against 5A over a larger sample (longer period of time) would be interesting to see.

 

However, we do have a sample size of 10 years for how the largest DII class (formerly DII-Large, then DII-AAA, now DII-AA I believe; the former “Super 7” for those of you not averse to alliterative names) has performed against DI classes, and the numbers speak volumes from 1997-2006 (these numbers may be off a game or two by class, but not enough to change the story):

 

DII-Large/AAA (’97-’06)

vs 5A (66-25) .725

vs 4A (49-9) .845

vs 3A (8-1) .889

vs 2A (21-3) .875

vs 1A (4-0) 1.000

vs DI Total (148-38) .795

 

If anyone wants a breakout by DII school, I can provide that as well. Nevertheless, while each DI class has some stalwart programs that could compete with the largest DII class on any given night (even on down to 2A with a school like Alcoa), the fact of the matter remains that, head-to-head, DII-AAA has thrashed DI – to the tune of a 73% winning percentage versus 5A and 85% and greater versus each of the other classes (4A through 1A). Whether it’s raw W-L data, or any other anecdotal data (e.g., four 4A/5A champs suffering their only losses of the season at the hands of non-champs from DII-AAA), the data yields only one answer.

 

Once again, yes, Maryville is good. Alcoa is good. Riverdale is good. A lot of DI programs are good and, in a given year, can beat up on DII schools on any given night. Let’s not turn this into a public/private debate or a “but you wouldn’t want any piece of (insert quality DI program here)” argument. However, of the games that actually have been played (and it’s a who’s who of quality programs that DI has put up against DII-AAA), 5A has won 27% of the time, 4A 15% of the time, and DI as a whole about 21% of the time.

 

Therein lies your answer.

 

 

 

thank you rollredroll for providing the facts and not just a bunch of he-said/she-said. its well appreciated here in the southwestern corner of the state.

[MLREB]

Rollredroll....as always you are the man. From top to bottom 5A will almost always be stronger than 4a for obvious reasons. The difference between the top teams are slight though and sometimes 4A is better.

[brosbaseball9]

Quite a few top 5A and4A teams are playing DII this year. After Week 6, a good indication will be based on the following games but I doubt it will prove anything conclusive.

Aug. 24: BA v. Independence

Aug. 24: MBA v. Antioch

Aug. 25: Christian Brothers v. Melrose

Aug. 31: BA v. Ravenwood

Aug. 31: McCallie v. Franklin

Aug. 32: Christian Brothers v. Ridgeway

Sept. 14: BA v. Smyrna

Sept. 14: MBA v. Hillsboro

Sept. 14: Father Ryan v. John Overton

Sept. 14: Christian Brothers v. Wooddale

Sept. 28: MBA v. Ravenwood

Oct. 5: MUS v. Cookeville

 

 

 

looks to be some pretty good matchups on paper. hope that most of these games turn out the "right" way. and i thought the Super 7 schools were "scared" to play the 4a/5a "big boys"....guess not. lol.

[reaction]

This question arises around this time every year. Same song, second verse.

 

Maryville fans can make their claims about “best in state – all classifications” in some years (2005 and 2006 for example), and with just cause, although I’m not sure what MLREB’s comments about the 4A state title games have to do with the 4A classification as a whole versus other classes (it just says that Maryville, Melrose, Hillsboro, and a few others individually have great programs).

 

Similarly, 4A fans can make all the noise they want about their perceived equality with or superiority over 5A, although, based on the one year (2006) of data I have reviewed, the 4A vs. 5A series was tied at 40-40, with 4A generally putting up relatively stronger 4A programs versus relatively weaker 5A programs (I can provide further analysis if necessary). How 4A stacks up against 5A over a larger sample (longer period of time) would be interesting to see.

 

However, we do have a sample size of 10 years for how the largest DII class (formerly DII-Large, then DII-AAA, now DII-AA I believe; the former “Super 7” for those of you not averse to alliterative names) has performed against DI classes, and the numbers speak volumes from 1997-2006 (these numbers may be off a game or two by class, but not enough to change the story):

 

DII-Large/AAA (’97-’06)

vs 5A (66-25) .725

vs 4A (49-9) .845

vs 3A (8-1) .889

vs 2A (21-3) .875

vs 1A (4-0) 1.000

vs DI Total (148-38) .795

 

If anyone wants a breakout by DII school, I can provide that as well. Nevertheless, while each DI class has some stalwart programs that could compete with the largest DII class on any given night (even on down to 2A with a school like Alcoa), the fact of the matter remains that, head-to-head, DII-AAA has thrashed DI – to the tune of a 73% winning percentage versus 5A and 85% and greater versus each of the other classes (4A through 1A). Whether it’s raw W-L data, or any other anecdotal data (e.g., four 4A/5A champs suffering their only losses of the season at the hands of non-champs from DII-AAA), the data yields only one answer.

 

Once again, yes, Maryville is good. Alcoa is good. Riverdale is good. A lot of DI programs are good and, in a given year, can beat up on DII schools on any given night. Let’s not turn this into a public/private debate or a “but you wouldn’t want any piece of (insert quality DI program here)” argument. However, of the games that actually have been played (and it’s a who’s who of quality programs that DI has put up against DII-AAA), 5A has won 27% of the time, 4A 15% of the time, and DI as a whole about 21% of the time.

 

Therein lies your answer.

 

Great post.

[big red big blue]

Quite a few top 5A and4A teams are playing DII this year. After Week 6, a good indication will be based on the following games but I doubt it will prove anything conclusive.

Aug. 24: BA v. Independence

Aug. 24: MBA v. Antioch

Aug. 25: Christian Brothers v. Melrose

Aug. 31: BA v. Ravenwood

Aug. 31: McCallie v. Franklin

Aug. 32: Christian Brothers v. Ridgeway

Sept. 14: BA v. Smyrna

Sept. 14: MBA v. Hillsboro

Sept. 14: Father Ryan v. John Overton

Sept. 14: Christian Brothers v. Wooddale

Sept. 28: MBA v. Ravenwood

Oct. 5: MUS v. Cookeville

 

 

I have to say, my hat is off to Ravenwood. IMO, Alcoa and Ravenwood are the only two public schools who can say the will play "anyone, anywhere." What a great program Coach Rector has put together over there in such a short period of time. I will be cheering every year for Ravenwood to win 5A. Some of their fellow 5A programs should take some notes on their scheduling practices.

 

Also, it is really exciting to see some of these match-ups renewed, especially between some old Nashville rivals (MBA-Hillsboro; FRHS-Overton).

[lax4life32]

looks to be some pretty good matchups on paper. hope that most of these games turn out the "right" way. and i thought the Super 7 schools were "scared" to play the 4a/5a "big boys"....guess not. lol.

 

 

 

I wish more of the top 4A schools would step up and play more 5A schools im sick of herin about how they are the best in the state when they dont even play the top 5A teams or the top DII schools.

[SACDAWGS]

Great post.

 

 

QUOTE(rapbwood @ Jun 26 2007 - 03:33 PM)

Quite a few top 5A and4A teams are playing DII this year. After Week 6, a good indication will be based on the following games but I doubt it will prove anything conclusive.

Aug. 24: BA v. Independence

Aug. 24: MBA v. Antioch

Aug. 25: Christian Brothers v. Melrose

Aug. 31: BA v. Ravenwood

Aug. 31: McCallie v. Franklin

Aug. 32: Christian Brothers v. Ridgeway

Sept. 14: BA v. Smyrna

Sept. 14: MBA v. Hillsboro

Sept. 14: Father Ryan v. John Overton

Sept. 14: Christian Brothers v. Wooddale

Sept. 28: MBA v. Ravenwood

Oct. 5: MUS v. Cookeville

 

 

Also, Independence plays MBA the week following Brentwood Academy. Great matchups between 5A and DII schools this year. It will be interesting to see how they all turn out.

 

Maybe that winning percentage will decrease? Then again, it could increase. That is what makes this so much for fun for the fans. Most of these players could care less about winning percentages amongst 5A vs DII. They just want the opportunity to play against the best and show they are the best! Remember, these are 15-18 year old kids. It is still a game for them. For the fans, we worry and dive into all this extra stuff. Mainly, to prove our alma mater or local HS is better than someone else's. It is fun to have the bragging rights when your school defeats the other. Then its fans can stick out their chest and act like the king of the mountain. If that happens for you, great. Enjoy it to the fullest.

For all the players out there...go have fun and be the best!!

[utfootball08]

In 05 an average(still really good though) BA team beat the 5A state champs in Ravenwood. And I think that same year a 3-7 FRHS team beat Franklin. Just two games but they really stuck out to me. So did McCallie beating Riverdale last year.

[YouWishYouWereARebel]

I saw the 4a and 5a games last year and there was no doubt the Maryville was the best team and i would say in the past that the best 3 or even 4 teams in the state have been 4a. Maybe 5a's numbers win out in the end but the cream of 4a would beat the cream of 5a.

[hilltopper12]

I saw the 4a and 5a games last year and there was no doubt the Maryville was the best team and i would say in the past that the best 3 or even 4 teams in the state have been 4a. Maybe 5a's numbers win out in the end but the cream of 4a would beat the cream of 5a.

 

 

 

Your probaly right but 5a is WAYY deaper then 4a.