5A vs. DII. Whos Stronger?

[hilltopper12]

Which classification is stronger 5A or DII. (Yes i know DII dosent have many teams but try to ignore that fact and focus on talent).

[BLUEMOM]

The McCallie-Riverdale game last year was one of the most exciting games I've ever seen - high school, college or pro! I believe on any given day a match-up between a strong 5A and a strong DII school would be a toss up.

[MLREB]

If you watched the state championships the last few years it's been 4A but that's not the question. IMO DII.

[KWoodroof]

If you watched the state championships the last few years it's been 4A but that's not the question. IMO DII.

 

Wouldn't it be fun to go back to the old, unenlightened days when there was just A, AA, or AAA football? Then we wouldn't have to speculate who was better, Riverdale, Maryville, MBA, or BA. Ok, we'd still argue that the results weren't a true indication, but still....

[itzme]

5A has far more (in numbers) talented athletes, but DIIAAA has more concentrated talent. My thinking is to ask yourself why DII was formed to begin with. If you can't beat 'em...split 'em.

 

I think that answers your question.

[Bighurt]

5A has far more (in numbers) talented athletes, but DIIAAA has more concentrated talent. My thinking is to ask yourself why DII was formed to begin with. If you can't beat 'em...split 'em.

 

I think that answers your question.

 

I agree with itzme.

 

I find it interesting that McCallie and MUS never won a state championship in football until DII-AAA was formed and MBA had not won a state championship in 30 years until they won DII-AAA in 1998. Also, Brentwood Academy went 10 years between championships (1996 to 2006). It would appear that since DII was formed the level of play at most of the DII-AAA schools has improved. I don't think that was the intent back in 1997. /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

[03]

The McCallie-Riverdale game last year was one of the most exciting games I've ever seen - high school, college or pro! I believe on any given day a match-up between a strong 5A and a strong DII school would be a toss up.

 

 

The McCallie at Alcoa (2A) game looked like 2 evenly matched teams.

[ruse?]

Which classification is stronger 5A or DII. (Yes i know DII dosent have many teams but try to ignore that fact and focus on talent).

 

 

hilltopper12.

Great question. In the East TN area, we don't have many DII vs. 5A games anymore. Most recent would probably be Webb/Bearden which ended in 02 or 03. Seems as though Webb won the last 3 or so. In 5A Oak Ridge might bounce back this yr, and William Blount along with Bearden will surprise some folks; however Maryville, Morristown West (4A), Fulton, Catholic, AE (3A), and Aloca (2A) are stronger than many DII and or 5A schools. Webb (DII-2 Champ) is very good, and has traded wins with AE over the last few yrs. I think Alcoa beat McCallie last yr. Pretty sure Catholic has beaten Webb the last few yrs, and they do play Baylor this yr. Maryville is simply the best team in the state regardless of classification, and Morristown West meets up with them in the semis annually. Just no good answer for you over this way. Sorry.

ruse?

[bluelion]

Looked it up and Alcoa did beat McCallie by 3 last year. Of course McCallie beat Riverdale also. Catholic did beat Webb by 1 last year. Do you know when and where the Baylor vs Catholic game is this year?

 

hilltopper12.

Great question. In the East TN area, we don't have many DII vs. 5A games anymore. Most recent would probably be Webb/Bearden which ended in 02 or 03. Seems as though Webb won the last 3 or so. In 5A Oak Ridge might bounce back this yr, and William Blount along with Bearden will surprise some folks; however Maryville, Morristown West (4A), Fulton, Catholic, AE (3A), and Aloca (2A) are stronger than many DII and or 5A schools. Webb (DII-2 Champ) is very good, and has traded wins with AE over the last few yrs. I think Alcoa beat McCallie last yr. Pretty sure Catholic has beaten Webb the last few yrs, and they do play Baylor this yr. Maryville is simply the best team in the state regardless of classification, and Morristown West meets up with them in the semis annually. Just no good answer for you over this way. Sorry.

ruse?

[rollredroll]

This question arises around this time every year. Same song, second verse.

 

Maryville fans can make their claims about “best in state – all classifications” in some years (2005 and 2006 for example), and with just cause, although I’m not sure what MLREB’s comments about the 4A state title games have to do with the 4A classification as a whole versus other classes (it just says that Maryville, Melrose, Hillsboro, and a few others individually have great programs).

 

Similarly, 4A fans can make all the noise they want about their perceived equality with or superiority over 5A, although, based on the one year (2006) of data I have reviewed, the 4A vs. 5A series was tied at 40-40, with 4A generally putting up relatively stronger 4A programs versus relatively weaker 5A programs (I can provide further analysis if necessary). How 4A stacks up against 5A over a larger sample (longer period of time) would be interesting to see.

 

However, we do have a sample size of 10 years for how the largest DII class (formerly DII-Large, then DII-AAA, now DII-AA I believe; the former “Super 7” for those of you not averse to alliterative names) has performed against DI classes, and the numbers speak volumes from 1997-2006 (these numbers may be off a game or two by class, but not enough to change the story):

 

DII-Large/AAA (’97-’06)

vs 5A (66-25) .725

vs 4A (49-9) .845

vs 3A (8-1) .889

vs 2A (21-3) .875

vs 1A (4-0) 1.000

vs DI Total (148-38) .795

 

If anyone wants a breakout by DII school, I can provide that as well. Nevertheless, while each DI class has some stalwart programs that could compete with the largest DII class on any given night (even on down to 2A with a school like Alcoa), the fact of the matter remains that, head-to-head, DII-AAA has thrashed DI – to the tune of a 73% winning percentage versus 5A and 85% and greater versus each of the other classes (4A through 1A). Whether it’s raw W-L data, or any other anecdotal data (e.g., four 4A/5A champs suffering their only losses of the season at the hands of non-champs from DII-AAA), the data yields only one answer.

 

Once again, yes, Maryville is good. Alcoa is good. Riverdale is good. A lot of DI programs are good and, in a given year, can beat up on DII schools on any given night. Let’s not turn this into a public/private debate or a “but you wouldn’t want any piece of (insert quality DI program here)” argument. However, of the games that actually have been played (and it’s a who’s who of quality programs that DI has put up against DII-AAA), 5A has won 27% of the time, 4A 15% of the time, and DI as a whole about 21% of the time.

 

Therein lies your answer.

[ruse?]

Looked it up and Alcoa did beat McCallie by 3 last year. Of course McCallie beat Riverdale also. Catholic did beat Webb by 1 last year. Do you know when and where the Baylor vs Catholic game is this year?

 

 

bluelion.

Baylor @ Catholic 9/27/07. Who the heck knows the answer to the question. That's why guys like Earl Nall, Sonny Moore, and others come up with "Power Rankings"

ruse?

[bigred4life]

Great work rollredroll. That is very telling.

 

This question arises around this time every year. Same song, second verse.

 

Maryville fans can make their claims about “best in state – all classifications” in some years (2005 and 2006 for example), and with just cause, although I’m not sure what MLREB’s comments about the 4A state title games have to do with the 4A classification as a whole versus other classes (it just says that Maryville, Melrose, Hillsboro, and a few others individually have great programs).

 

Similarly, 4A fans can make all the noise they want about their perceived equality with or superiority over 5A, although, based on the one year (2006) of data I have reviewed, the 4A vs. 5A series was tied at 40-40, with 4A generally putting up relatively stronger 4A programs versus relatively weaker 5A programs (I can provide further analysis if necessary). How 4A stacks up against 5A over a larger sample (longer period of time) would be interesting to see.

 

However, we do have a sample size of 10 years for how the largest DII class (formerly DII-Large, then DII-AAA, now DII-AA I believe; the former “Super 7” for those of you not averse to alliterative names) has performed against DI classes, and the numbers speak volumes from 1997-2006 (these numbers may be off a game or two by class, but not enough to change the story):

 

DII-Large/AAA (’97-’06)

vs 5A (66-25) .725

vs 4A (49-9) .845

vs 3A (8-1) .889

vs 2A (21-3) .875

vs 1A (4-0) 1.000

vs DI Total (148-38) .795

 

If anyone wants a breakout by DII school, I can provide that as well. Nevertheless, while each DI class has some stalwart programs that could compete with the largest DII class on any given night (even on down to 2A with a school like Alcoa), the fact of the matter remains that, head-to-head, DII-AAA has thrashed DI – to the tune of a 73% winning percentage versus 5A and 85% and greater versus each of the other classes (4A through 1A). Whether it’s raw W-L data, or any other anecdotal data (e.g., four 4A/5A champs suffering their only losses of the season at the hands of non-champs from DII-AAA), the data yields only one answer.

 

Once again, yes, Maryville is good. Alcoa is good. Riverdale is good. A lot of DI programs are good and, in a given year, can beat up on DII schools on any given night. Let’s not turn this into a public/private debate or a “but you wouldn’t want any piece of (insert quality DI program here)” argument. However, of the games that actually have been played (and it’s a who’s who of quality programs that DI has put up against DII-AAA), 5A has won 27% of the time, 4A 15% of the time, and DI as a whole about 21% of the time.

 

Therein lies your answer.