What the heck is a "level playing field"

[rick7425]

"Independent shools have advantages, but it's hard to look at yourself and see your advantages," former BA football coach Carlton Flatt said. "if you're going to have DI and DII, I think every independent school should be in DII. The independent schools have so many more things in their favor, they should compete in the playoff with other private schools."

bump. Here's a outstanding coach, with a good quote for Independents..

 

Of course, a complete public/private split would double the size of DII and give the existing DII schools the benefits of more schools, such as easier scheduling and less travel. Do you think Carlton Flatt might have been speaking more out of self-interest, as a DII coach and AD, than out of real concern for what goes on in DI?

 

Whatever his motives, I'm not sure that Flatt is particularly qualified to judge the "advantages" that DI private schools have.

[old24eagle]

Well, let's see...

 

South Pitt beats us all the time. They crushed us this year, in fact. If you look at the last 10 times we have played it is pretty even...if you look at the last 20 they have the advantage. We've only played Cloudland 1 time. We beat them, but it was in the quarterfinals of the state. Midway has never been good at Football, and if memory serves Coalfield has beaten us and we have beaten them. Don't know about Unaka or Cosby, but I'm guessing they aren't great Football programs.

 

So how does it tally out...we are one of the better privates in the state. Against the good 1a teams you named we are about 50-50. Against the bad ones we just don't know, but I'm guessing we beat them up pretty good most years as would the good publics. Thanks for making my point! The good publics are every bit as good as the good privates. The only argument you have is that the not good publics aren't as good as the good privates...which is true, but they are also not good against the good publics.

 

And student number wise we are a large 1a, actually have more students than SPitt, I guess I don't understand the ittybitty comment? Unless you are comparing us to the schools we end up playing in 2a...then it is appropriate.

 

p.s. i noticed that once again you framed the argument to include several schools that aren't very competitive in Football vs a good private. Try framing it with good privates vs good publics or poor privates vs poor publics. I know, I know, it just doesn't help your argument, but it is what it is.

 

Every school I named (other than Oakdale) has been at least better than average the last 3-4 seasons , and all are small schools stuck in the middle of nowhere. Unaka and Cosby are fairly large 1A schools but trust me they are in the middle of nowhere, Cloudland is a tiny school and is definitely in the middle of nowhere, not sure of the #s at south pitt but I think they are fairly close to Chatavagas , so they may not be as rural as the rest. Either way SP would be the only one who could even come close to you the last few years. I know it is not all due to the public v. private thing. I think the rural v. urban has a lot to do with it too. $$$, resources , and athlete to nonathlete ratio are all advantages you have. The biggest disadvantage you say is that you have to charge tuition.

 

Ittybitty was a knock on you for saying you were half the size of every school in your region.

[Ole3putt]

Of course, a complete public/private split would double the size of DII and give the existing DII schools the benefits of more schools, such as easier scheduling and less travel. Do you think Carlton Flatt might have been speaking more out of self-interest, as a DII coach and AD, than out of real concern for what goes on in DI?

 

Whatever his motives, I'm not sure that Flatt is particularly qualified to judge the "advantages" that DI private schools have.

 

 

I could care less what his motives were at the time the statement was made... Self-interest, could have been. still doesen't change the fact, he broke rank, and spoke about "favors & advantages"... However, I do think he is more than qualified to have stated his opinion.

 

I would be all for DII's benefiting, having more schools, easier scheduling, and less travel.( that's smart, could reduce expenses). hopefully lower the cost for those schools that might assist in granting $ aid. which would grant more families aid to send thier child to a private institution. ( if they are accepted).

[Antwan]

Of course, a complete public/private split would double the size of DII and give the existing DII schools the benefits of more schools, such as easier scheduling and less travel. Do you think Carlton Flatt might have been speaking more out of self-interest, as a DII coach and AD, than out of real concern for what goes on in DI?

 

Whatever his motives, I'm not sure that Flatt is particularly qualified to judge the "advantages" that DI private schools have.

 

 

I don't think anyone is for putting aid schools in the same class with non-aid schools. They would be in the same division...just not the same class.

[CYJacket]

How about we do a study to determine the average amount of money paid by private parents. Raise taxes by that amount for all taxpayers, and make all schools the same size, less than 500 students. Define the territory to which students come from, no transfers allowed even if you move into the zone, rebalance the population every 4 years. And that will "level" the playing field.

 

The debate has carried on ad nauseum and will continue to be carried on ad infinitem. The best satisfaction for all would be to end it by a total split. Then at the end of the season the TXXXAA could have a superbowl between the two to determine a champ and give each a State Championship from their division also. Add one more game to the season, that ought to go over well with the governing body, it would generate more money for them, after all that is what they want, to heck with the students and the parent school systems.

[Baldcoach]

How about we do a study to determine the average amount of money paid by private parents. Raise taxes by that amount for all taxpayers, and make all schools the same size, less than 500 students. Define the territory to which students come from, no transfers allowed even if you move into the zone, rebalance the population every 4 years. And that will "level" the playing field.

 

The debate has carried on ad nauseum and will continue to be carried on ad infinitem. The best satisfaction for all would be to end it by a total split. Then at the end of the season the TXXXAA could have a superbowl between the two to determine a champ and give each a State Championship from their division also. Add one more game to the season, that ought to go over well with the governing body, it would generate more money for them, after all that is what they want, to heck with the students and the parent school systems.

 

 

So we're gonna raise taxes on everyone by 7k a year? I really like the idea of smaller schools keyed to a neighborhood though. All studies say that is the way to go...it is really the model that the small privates use. It won't happen though...de-integration would occur and it would be ruled unconstitutional.

 

Do you think it is fair to split the privates out and put the aid and non-aid privates together? I thought the reason for DII in the first place was that financial aid constituted an unbeatable advantage? How does it not apply to the non-aid privates?

 

Or, if you think it ISN'T an unbeatable advantage, then I have a counter proposal. Bring everyone back together. Go to a 6a system. Go back to the pre-96 numbers dictating how many players any private could actually play who were on financial aid. Everyone wins. The very small rural publics are in 1a while the larger small privates will all be in 2a or 3a. Everyone will play everyone again and old rivalries that were interrupted by this silliness will be rekindled. The TSSAA will not have to worry about the privates leaving completely and taking 50% of the athletic revenues in the state with them.

[Baldcoach]

I could care less what his motives were at the time the statement was made... Self-interest, could have been. still doesen't change the fact, he broke rank, and spoke about "favors & advantages"... However, I do think he is more than qualified to have stated his opinion.

 

I would be all for DII's benefiting, having more schools, easier scheduling, and less travel.( that's smart, could reduce expenses). hopefully lower the cost for those schools that might assist in granting $ aid. which would grant more families aid to send thier child to a private institution. ( if they are accepted).

 

 

Would the AD at Maryville be qualified to speak to the advantages/disadvantages at Red Boiling Springs? If the AD at Maryville thought that some rule changes would be good for all publics, would those rules necessarily be good for Midway? I think not. Because just being an AD at an elite public school doesn't mean the guy has any clue what a small, rural, poor public needs or wants. Same thing with Flatt and DI privates...just because he coached at the most elite private Football program in the state at a very expensive and selective private school doesn't mean he has any knowledge of the advantages, disadvantages, or needs of small religious privates.

 

It would be like the President of Harvard saying that all East Coast Colleges had academic advantages over West Coast colleges because Harvard and MIT and Yale did...I'm thinking that Northwestern Mississippi Junior College might think differently about the situation.

[Antwan]

Would the AD at Maryville be qualified to speak to the advantages/disadvantages at Red Boiling Springs? If the AD at Maryville thought that some rule changes would be good for all publics, would those rules necessarily be good for Midway? I think not. Because just being an AD at an elite public school doesn't mean the guy has any clue what a small, rural, poor public needs or wants. Same thing with Flatt and DI privates...just because he coached at the most elite private Football program in the state at a very expensive and selective private school doesn't mean he has any knowledge of the advantages, disadvantages, or needs of small religious privates.

 

It would be like the President of Harvard saying that all East Coast Colleges had academic advantages over West Coast colleges because Harvard and MIT and Yale did...I'm thinking that Northwestern Mississippi Junior College might think differently about the situation.

 

 

I think you are wrong about that. He coached at BA before they had anything. They did not start out as an elite private school. He coached in this state for over 35 years. I think his opinion is worth something. Heck...I didn't attend a private school. That does not mean I don't know anything about how private schools operate...and the challenges they face. You must realize how narrow minded your statement is.

[Ole3putt]

Would the AD at Maryville be qualified to speak to the advantages/disadvantages at Red Boiling Springs? If the AD at Maryville thought that some rule changes would be good for all publics, would those rules necessarily be good for Midway? I think not. Because just being an AD at an elite public school doesn't mean the guy has any clue what a small, rural, poor public needs or wants. Same thing with Flatt and DI privates...just because he coached at the most elite private Football program in the state at a very expensive and selective private school doesn't mean he has any knowledge of the advantages, disadvantages, or needs of small religious privates.

 

It would be like the President of Harvard saying that all East Coast Colleges had academic advantages over West Coast colleges because Harvard and MIT and Yale did...I'm thinking that Northwestern Mississippi Junior College might think differently about the situation.

 

 

Nice analogy, Still doesn't change the statement he was quoted on...

 

Q- 1 & 2. We shouldn't worry about that, not gona happen.

 

#3- your intitled to you opionion, as I'm intitled to mine...

 

#4- What does colleges have to do with it?

[rick7425]

I don't think anyone is for putting aid schools in the same class with non-aid schools. They would be in the same division...just not the same class.

 

How much do the public school folks who want a complete split really care about what goes on in DII right now? Do you really think they will care any more about what becomes of the non-aid privates once they're shoved off to DII? Do you really think the aid-giving privates in DII want the non-aid privates just so there will be another classification within DII that doesn't even compete with the existing schools there?

[Indian]

I didn't think it was fair for St Andrew's Sewanee and Chattanooga David Brainerd School to have to travel all the way to Memphis for games, when SAS could have been playing in a midstate, Division II Class A region and DB could have been playing in a SE Tennessee, Division II Class A region. I don't fret about it but still thought it was an unnecessary burden that could have been taken care of with a complete split.

 

I don't see the large aid-giving privates being in the same classification within Division II as the current Division I privates which could move, and the small aid-giving privates such as BGA, St George's, wouldn't offer unreasonable competition for the likes of Goodpasture, Boyd-Buchanan, etc.

[Antwan]

How much do the public school folks who want a complete split really care about what goes on in DII right now? Do you really think they will care any more about what becomes of the non-aid privates once they're shoved off to DII? Do you really think the aid-giving privates in DII want the non-aid privates just so there will be another classification within DII that doesn't even compete with the existing schools there?

 

 

Yeah...I care and I'm about as big of a public school supporter as there is on this site. I don't think it would be fair to put aid and non-aid in the same class...just like I don't think it's fair to put non-aid privates in the same class with small publics.

 

As far as current DII schools...they wouldn't be affected either way.