What the heck is a "level playing field"

[Baldcoach]

I don't disagree that some schools have more money than others. Some can afford to give aid to athletes...some can't. Some can afford to...but choose not to.

 

I would think FRA would qualify as elite under your guidelines.

 

I agree there is nothing wrong with being an elite school. Under the current system...do you think you should be in the same class with those schools? If not...why not?

 

 

FRA may qualify, they are a tough case to call.

 

We would be non-elite. First, we don't have near the funding that any of the elite schools do...not even close. Secondly our admissions process is essentially non-selective. Finally, our philosophy is primarily religious in nature while the philosophy of the elite schools is to be the best at everything...they charge a premium price for premium services. Most of the DI schools would be like us. Most of the DII schools would be elite. Some are hard to call.

[Antwan]

Get rid of all sports and grow corn.

 

 

 

 

Suits me. /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

[Antwan]

FRA may qualify, they are a tough case to call.

 

We would be non-elite. First, we don't have near the funding that any of the elite schools do...not even close. Secondly our admissions process is essentially non-selective. Finally, our philosophy is primarily religious in nature while the philosophy of the elite schools is to be the best at everything...they charge a premium price for premium services. Most of the DI schools would be like us. Most of the DII schools would be elite. Some are hard to call.

 

 

Agreed...but you didn't answer the question. Under the current format (by that I mean a class system...no merit) do you think you should be in the same class with the current DII teams?

[Indian]

Once again you are ONLY counting FOOTBALL!!! That is not the only sport in TSSAA need i keep reminding you of this?

 

 

 

No I was talking all sports. There are few exceptions.

[Baldcoach]

The bald one says public supporters keep arguing points using only the "elite" privates. I haven't heard a name from the private supporters that wasn't what I would consider an "elite" public. All they can come up with is Maryville , Alcoa , Fulton. Bottom line publics should win more , simply because they greatly outnumber the privates. If it were not for Alcoa Goodpasture would have won it at least the last two years in 2A. If it were not for TC FCS would have at least made the championship 1 maybe 2 more times. DLHS is every bit the power in 3A that fulton is and catholic has had some bad luck in the playoffs the last 2 years or they may have a ring or two.

 

 

Ok, I'm gonna assume you really don't understand what we are talking about and explain again.

 

You keep using the characteristics of the DII (elite) private schools to explain why the DI (non-elite) privates should be punished. The word 'elite' here doesn't mean 'good Football program', it means a private school with a LOT of money, selective admissions, and an essentially non-religious philosophy of being the best at everything rather than Christian education.

 

And I have mentioned numerous programs that are every bit as good as the best small privates that are not the ones who win the trophy every time.

 

p.s. By saying "If not for (public X) then (private X) would have won the state you are 1) assuming that public X didn't beat a better public than private X on the way to the championship and 2) actually making our point...the BEST publics are better than the BEST privates. Thank you for making my life easier! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[Indian]

Agreed...but you didn't answer the question. Under the current format (by that I mean a class system...no merit) do you think you should be in the same class with the current DII teams?

 

 

 

I can't see any unfairness about placing Goodpasture, Boyd-Buchanan, USJ and similar sized current Division I private schools in Division II, in a class with the current small-class Division II teams such as BGA. It still gets brought up time to time by ADs and principals but those school would not be in the same class as MBA or McCallie.

[old24eagle]

Ok, I'm gonna assume you really don't understand what we are talking about and explain again.

 

You keep using the characteristics of the DII (elite) private schools to explain why the DI (non-elite) privates should be punished. The word 'elite' here doesn't mean 'good Football program', it means a private school with a LOT of money, selective admissions, and an essentially non-religious philosophy of being the best at everything rather than Christian education.

 

And I have mentioned numerous programs that are every bit as good as the best small privates that are not the ones who win the trophy every time.

 

p.s. By saying "If not for (public X) then (private X) would have won the state you are 1) assuming that public X didn't beat a better public than private X on the way to the championship and 2) actually making our point...the BEST publics are better than the BEST privates. Thank you for making my life easier! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

Just as I assume you have never been part of a public school system when you complain about all of this elusive tax money were supposed to be getting. Like I have said before 90% of the funds we get for athletics comes straight from parents and coaches.

 

If it were not for Alcoa last year and maybe the last 2 years you would have seen CAK (private ) vs. Goodpasture (private)in the 2A championship . I remember a few short years ago (less than 10) when small 1A schools who werent very good used to destroy CAK now they are a 2A power. Not that that is impossible to make a turnaround like that but in such a short time while moving up a class. I would dare say there has been many public schools able to do that.

 

I don't care how YOU define "ELITE" the only schools you defend your argument with are SP , TC in 1A , Alcoa in 2A , Fulton in 3A , and Maryville in 4A who doesn't even compete with any privates. I would be interested in seeing the numbers on winning percentages in the playoffs public vs. private. and the percentage of private schools that make the playoffs vs. publics

[Antwan]

I can't see any unfairness about placing Goodpasture, Boyd-Buchanan, USJ and similar sized current Division I private schools in Division II, in a class with the current small-class Division II teams such as BGA. It still gets brought up time to time by ADs and principals but those school would not be in the same class as MBA or McCallie.

 

 

BGA is in the larger DII AA class.

[lazarus]

"I would be interested in seeing the numbers on winning percentages in the playoffs public vs. private. and the percentage of private schools that make the playoffs vs. publics"

 

i am amazed that you havent seen those percentages.

 

it's too big to fit on here, but i had the stats from every public-private contest played from the inception of the football playoffs thru about 3 or 4 years ago.

 

over most of that time period privates had won around 70-75% of the games with publics.

after the "split" the private winning % began to go up, instead of down

and before the multipler was added was getting to be up in the 90+percentiles.

 

i had a number of years worth of regular season games & the winning percents on those

werent as extreme as the playoffs. if you eliminated non-region (or district) play the percentages were similar to those of the playoffs.

obviously privates preferred to play "up" publics in their non region games (or maybe publics preferred to play "down" privates!)

 

understand that the winning % didnt "guarantee" a private champion every year,

as, even if you win 90% of the time, you lose 10%

and privates also knock out privates.

not every bracket contained privates and some contained several.

likewise, a public champion didnt have to effect the winning % much,

since a lot of brackets would allow a public champion to see only one private on the way.

(or potentially none)

 

after the multiplier the winning percent went to (i dont recall exactly)

something in the area between 2/3 and 3/4

which doesnt really bother me that much.

i think it is reasonable to expect the privates ought to be in the top 1/3 of schools.

after all, they are charging people to send kids there.

if they were bottom dwellers, wouldnt that be a ripoff?

 

the brackets are still similar enough that public schools have a reasonable chance to win titles

and privates will win some too.

i dont think you would want to see privates in a hopeless situation either.

 

i realize that some publics are not in a very favorable geographic location,

but no system is perfect.

there are always going to be stronger & weaker regions.

if it creates a sense of some justice

there are also privates with little athletic emphasis

who are multiplied up into a worse situation than just having a tough road to a gold ball.

 

from my viewpoint, mathematically i would expect the privates to have some advantage.

repeating myself, they are charging people to go there.

the larger part of them place emphasis on strong athletic programs

just like the larger part of the publics.

administrations that cant deliver in the privates wont last.

in publics they can last (forever) until some people retire

(or a new position is created in the school system administration)

i can live with a lot of privates fielding good teams.

i'd expect them to have some dominant teams as well.

but there are plenty of good public schools right now

and some dominant ones.

things seem pretty competitive (at least by my numbers).

 

i was a skeptic about the multiplier

and it hasnt been around long enough to completely win my trust.

but my numbers say it is working out about right so far.

 

i still think BC's phantom athletes are baloney, tho.

[BDURHAM]

i was a skeptic about the multiplier

and it hasnt been around long enough to completely win my trust.

but my numbers say it is working out about right so far.

 

i still think BC's phantom athletes are baloney, tho.

 

 

laz,

 

Would you agree with this statement:

 

"The vast majority of public school administrators and coaches do not

believe private schools belong in the same classification with public

schools."

 

No matter what the numbers say, many people believe that there is an

unfair advantage held by the privates. Put privates in 4A and 5A and

WW III will break out.

 

Who is "BC"?

[Indian]

BGA is in the larger DII AA class.

 

 

 

If FRA and the rest were in Division II, I'd bet BGA would want to be in a Division II, smaller class with their Nashville neighbors. They'd be in a Nashville area region. Right now, BGA's only area opponent in Division II Class A football would have been Davidson Academy. I can't see BGA, Harding Academy, St George's, or any other current Class A Division II school having a competitive advantage over the current Division I privates. aid or not aid.

 

Here is what I figured BGA's region to be if there was a complete split. Some may not offer all sports. Any worried about big bad wolves wrecking the little schools should notice there's no sign of MBA or Brentwood Academy in the list:

 

Clarksville Academy, BGA, Davidson Academy, St. Cecilia, University School, Nashville Christian, David Lipscomb, Franklin Road Academy (Lipscomb would probably be on the edge of Division II, AA, depending on enrollment limit determined).

 

For the other Nashville area region, I had these schools: Mt Juliet Christian, College Heights, Goodpasture, Friendship Christian, CPA, Ezell-Harding, Donelson Christian

 

Someone closer to Nashville might be able to fit those together geographically better than I did but the point is there are plenty of private schools available for practical Division II regions and travel.

[Antwan]

If FRA and the rest were in Division II, I'd bet BGA would want to be in a Division II, smaller class with their Nashville neighbors. They'd be in a Nashville area region. Right now, BGA's only area opponent in Division II Class A football would have been Davidson Academy. I can't see BGA, Harding Academy, St George's, or any other current Class A Division II school having a competitive advantage over the current Division I privates. aid or not aid.

 

Here is what I figured BGA's region to be if there was a complete split. Some may not offer all sports. Any worried about big bad wolves wrecking the little schools should notice there's no sign of MBA or Brentwood Academy in the list:

 

Clarksville Academy, BGA, Davidson Academy, St. Cecilia, University School, Nashville Christian, David Lipscomb, Franklin Road Academy (Lipscomb would probably be on the edge of Division II, AA, depending on enrollment limit determined).

 

For the other Nashville area region, I had these schools: Mt Juliet Christian, College Heights, Goodpasture, Friendship Christian, CPA, Ezell-Harding, Donelson Christian

 

Someone closer to Nashville might be able to fit those together geographically better than I did but the point is there are plenty of private schools available for practical Division II regions and travel.

 

 

I agree that Nashville privates would have no problem scheduling. I could see where Boyd and the Jackson privates would have more trouble scheduling region games due to travel. Those could offset that by playing local public schools in the regular season. They do that anyway now.