The merit based system....

[VolunteerGeneral]

ELA...I see your point, but I still stand by my statement. Your original post came across, at least to me, that you care more about coaching than you do educating. That may or may not be the case. But whenever you post something on here, you better be willing and expect someone to respond to it. I know I wouldn`t really like it if I thought my son`s high school history teacher cared more about coaching football than teaching history as if teaching history is just something you have to do until schools out and you can get on the football field. If I took it wrong then sorry, but I stand by that post.

So what do you think when someone like pujo says the merit plan is crazy (you`d have to read the whole post)

and then on another thread says....""I think it should be decided by the capability you have.Thats why i like ela,s combination plan.It puts teams with the same capabilities together for the most part"

Do you think that sounds pretty contradictory? I certainly do. It`s posts like those that make everyone in favor of a split look pretty silly.

[pujo]

I'm like Ela, I don't think you can read. I think Ela's combination plan is the best because it puts teams were their capabilities are. The private schools has a higher capability because they have as many selected students as the 1a public schools have local enrollment. The provate schools get to choose their students, the public schools get what comes through the door. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who has the advantage. Let me pose a question to you, would you rather have 275 smart, coachable, teachable students or 275 that just walked in the door? How hard is that? What your plan call's for is to penalize public schools for winning. Other states use a multiplier for private schools. Your plan, in effect, wants to put a multiplier on public schools for winning, as I said before that is CRAZY. You need to go to all these other states that use a multiplier and show them your brilliant plan, maybe you can get all of them straightened out. Your not crazy, it's just the rest of the world. As for whoever said that I was wanting to seperate the publics and privates, read it again, I said I like ELA's combination plan which is a multiplier, because I'm partial to 1a. I really think a total split is the only way to be fair to all the public schools. With the multiplier, all we're really doing is dumping our troubles on somebody else, but hey, works for me.

[VolunteerGeneral]

pujo...You must be making up new definitions for the word capabilities. The whole basis behind my plan is to put teams with the same capabilities together. Incredible,just incredible. If it weren`t so funny, I`d have to cry.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

can we stay away from personal attacks and tweak or modify plans instead, I will be posting my own ideas in a few days.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

Uhh I think we should stay away from Pennsyvlania the schools up there are nothing like the schools in TN...I have a friend who went to Pensbury which would be a 6A school in TN...they were horrible there but would do pretty well in TN...ever heard of Central Bucks West? They won 59 games in a row and were rated #23 in the country, and have been in the top 10 a few years ago...they also had a school by the name of Cathedral Prep Erie (who beat CB West last year)...and was ranked number 4 in the country...they played for the 4A title...I don't think anyone wants to have public vs. private or Riverdale vs Brentwood Academy for the state again...

[pujo]

Must I put it in a sentence for you. A school of 250 students that is able to pick nothing but the best, is more capable of competing at a higher level than a school who takes the first 250 students who walks through the door.

[VolunteerGeneral]

pujo...I see what you`re saying and you have misconceptions about private schools. I just have to roll my eyes on some of your posts. I can tell you are very serious on your posts, but it`s obvious that you are not that familiar with private schools. A lot of your notions are simply misconceived. Like someone else posted earlier...a lot you you guys who have never been to a private school just don`t realize how ridiculous some of your posts are when you describe a private school. From now on I will be kind enough to point them out to you and when you post one of your misguided notions,

In the meantime, the merit system does place compatible teams in the same class. You don`t like it because it could eventually move a public school. Remember to be careful when you yell for change, because you just might get it. ELA`s plan is ok, because it does allow for a lot of good things, but to summarily put a multiplier system on any particular group is inheritantly unfair. I don`t know why you can`t see that. It`s much the same as if the TSSAA said that any team that wears green will be multiplied by a number. With the merit system, you don`t multiply....you add and subtract. You only do this when a team has displayed an ability to play above the level of their current class. I fail to see anything unfair about that.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

My only problems with ELA's plan is this.

 

 

1-Humans are deciding it, meaning that everyone likes the idea until they are the 17th team picked.

 

2-If head to head is not at play, how do you decide which team is better if both are 7-3 (remember there are seeds so that definitely matters)

 

3-Because mathematics are being used in to play, teams would try and run up the score, for two reasons...A- to have a larger winning margin, B- to prove to the committee that they are vastly superior to any other team.

 

4-I keep harping on this but scheduling would be a concern...no one is goin to want to play a team like Goodpasture, Lipscomb, Brentwood Academy at their place, especially when each game means something OR if the fellow team is also in your classification.

I mean if I am knoxville catholic high school...I'm not going to be too thrilled about playing Webb at their place. I mean just as ELA said you have to play some quality teams and not only that, you have to WIN.

 

5-How much stock do we put in to overall record...let us look at Tennessee High last year...they were 10-0 at the end of the regular season, but no one had them in their top 5 in 4A...Hillsboro, Maryville, Morristown West, Memphis East, and possibly Red Bank would have beaten them...THS is a team that did everything they were supposed to in order to win...how can you say that THS shouldn't get the #1 seed over a team like Maryville, who lost at home to West, yet everyone knew Maryville would still be a serious contender.

 

6-Injuries, suspensions, recent perfomances...would those be at play in deciding how a team was seeded...Remember in 2000 when Kenyon Martin broke his fibula, and UC got a 2 seed...the NCAA finally admitted it was because they were looking at injuries...should the committee also give a team a better seed if their star player is SUPPOSEDLY returning from injury...let's take Red Bank for instance, Riggs goes down...suddenly the team isn't that great yet it is only week 5...so do you give him the 1 seed because 6 weeks later (week 11) he will be back hopefully and they will play like the state contenders everyone thinks they are. Or what if its just bologne and he can't play...I remember Webb's middle linebacker got hurt two years ago in the regular season, he had committed to Virginia...now that really put a damper on their playoff hopes (althought I don't think it changed their seed).

 

7-I think a lot of teams would cry foul about who was selected, and the committee would have to take a geniune look at how many east teams or west teams were picked...I mean if I am Cocke County or Science Hill...I'm not really looking forward to driving across the state to play Melrose or East at their place, it can be intimidating and dangerous. Or wouldn't it look kind of odd if Germantown and Houston were seeded against each other, yet Bartlett had to go across the state (even though it is better then one of those two teams?)

 

8-I could be totally off based, but the way I see it a team could theoretically play 3 away games in the playoffs (is that legal?) I know in Division 2 a team gets to host a second round game if it has to go across the state in the first round and the other team got to host their first game...remember this isn't like it is now, where you would play someone from around your county...you could in all honesty see a Maryville East match up...your talking about 80 to 90 kids spending the night at a hotel, feeding all of them at least 3 or 4 meals, transporting them, and that could in all honesty happen 3 times in a row...kids missing a friday and sometimes a thursday for 3 straight weeks. Then they make it to the finals and miss even more school and it costs even more money.

 

 

9-Is more respect or points given to teams who won on the road? A team beats a really good team away (like maybe Briarcrest beats Germantown at GHS)...yet Briarcrest loses to USJ at Home...obviously we know that USJ is no string cheese, and neither is Germantown, but do we punish Briarcrest for losing to USJ because they are a classification lower (sometimes the lower classifications are better then the upper ones...examples Ezell Harding, Alcoa, Lipscomb, Goodpasture, Bishop Byrne, Maryville, Morristown West, Memphis East...all of those schools could play with teams that were in a higher classification). Maybe this year USJ is better then Germantown (odd but could easily happen, hard to tell whose better, might not have common opponents or play each other).

 

 

9-Let us look at the committe rules

-Couldn't choose from schools they attended or graduated.

-Couldn't be choosing schools from which their school lost to or beat (I'm not picking Houston they beat my team Germantown this year, they cheated!)

-Couldn't be choosing schools from which their son or daughter attended.

-Couldn't be choosing schools from where their spouse or maybe even boss attended (Oh come on Darling you know my school is better...Gee you want that raise dont you Junior?).

-Couldnt be choosing from schools that their son or daughter beat (I don't care that we beat them in week 1 by a single point and they didn't have their qb...we are so much better then them they dont deserve to go!).

-Couldn't be choosing from schools from the county or city they lived in...I can see it now (Everyone complains cus the Memphis guy picked all Memphis teams)

-The committe would also have to be comprised of people from the entire state...but should more people come from Nashville and Memphis and then Jackson, Chattanooga, then the Tri-cities?

 

 

I know that ELA has adressed some of the issues I have spoken about, and he has probably already answered them...I like his plan, but I just don't like the idea of people choosing who gets to go and who doesn't get to...

 

 

Responding with...."Ego why do u got to worry about these things" is not a valid excuse...these little things are a big thing!

[Edited by TheEgoHasLanded on 7/6/02 8:23P]

[silverpie]

and B, a lot of what you're opposing is based on a misreading of the proposal. The committee would not choose the teams--it would establish a formula by which teams are chosen. Most of the rest are valid or not depending on the formula. There would only be one human decision (not counting the inevitable referee screwups :) from the first whistle of the season to the publication of the brackets--once the 32 teams were selected BY FORMULA, the humans would need to determine which 16 would be eastern and which western.

 

(BTW, that decision would prevent a Memphis East-Maryville matchup until the state final.)

[TheEgoHasLanded]

When you decide things like that, based on a mathematical situation you are playing with fire...

 

How in God's name did Nebraska get to play in the National Championship but couldn't win their own conference?

[silverpie]

You know, we decide the playoff field by a formula now. Especially in regions that don't have round-robin schedules (a pet peeve of mine, frankly), you can see some pretty strange things--there have been cases where a game in Mississippi, with no Tennessee school playing, had the potential to decide a state playoff berth. At least if there's a published formula (btw, I'd put forward something like the Pairwise Comparisons that are used for NCAA ice hockey), anyone so inclined can verify that the results were as they should be.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Hockey....YUCK!!!!!!!!!!! :^(